Episode 32 - Women's Pro Baseball Is Back After 70 Years, Plus the Playoff Races Get Real

Cold Open: The Girl Who Struck Out Babe Ruth

Caitlin: She struck out Babe Ruth, called third strike after two whiffs, and Lou Gehrig.

Alex: Wow. Yes.

Caitlin: Three swinging strikes back to back. Hi, I’m Caitlin.

Alex: Hi, I’m Alex.

Caitlin: And this is Raising the Game, a women’s sports podcast covering primetime performers, business behind the athletes in the leagues, and what the growth of women’s sports means for the next generation of women athletes.

Alex: This is episode 32. It’s going to be a little bit different than normal. We will be traveling during our normal recording session.

Caitlin: Yes.

Alex: So we are going to do a little bit of history on women’s professional baseball, the new WPBL that’s out there.

Caitlin: Yeah, so WPBL play kicked off this past weekend. They played their games. We’ve talked about it a little bit on this past week’s episode, episode 31, so you can go check that out. But we did want to dive in and share a little bit more about the history, like Alex said, but also the origin story of the league that we see today, and get you a little bit excited about it. Hopefully maybe you can catch some games on streaming. I keep looking to buy a hat from one of the teams, and whenever you go there, every single team’s hats are all sold out.

Alex: Yeah, that’s awesome.

Caitlin: Which is great. I love it. I love to see it. So we’re going to dig into that, and then we’ll wrap up today’s episode. Since we don’t have a ton of new content relative to the active leagues, NWSL and WNBA, we’re going to do a little how do we think the playoff picture is going to shake out for both of those leagues, and then we’ll wrap with a what to watch for the week.

Alex: As always, remember to follow us on Instagram, RTG underscore pod, Spotify, Apple Podcasts. YouTube Music has podcasts, so we’re on there. Anywhere you get them, make sure to follow us.

Caitlin: Yep, share with your friends. Like, subscribe, whatever buttons you can click.

Alex: Do all the buttons. Every button.

Caitlin: I know normally, normal episode, we do a favorite thing. I think we both agreed our favorite thing is we are taking this trip, which is why we’re recording early, and we will get to see a live NWSL game. We have yet to see one.

Alex: Never been to one. Which is wild for all of the US Men’s National Team games we’ve been to.

Caitlin: I know. We love women’s soccer, but there’s no pro team here in Minnesota where we live. So we will go see the Denver Summit play the Utah Royals out in Colorado. So looking forward to that. All right. Let’s do it. Should we dig right in?

Women’s Baseball Starts in College: Vassar, 1866

Caitlin: A little history lesson. So I’m going to lead us through this conversation on the history side, and then we’ll get into the current league, like we said. I think what’s really interesting to me as we were researching this is women’s professional baseball, or attempts at establishing a league or a place to play, has existed for a long, long time. So for over 70 years right now, no woman in America has been able to call herself a professional baseball player. So that’s going back to the fifties, right? But that obviously just changed last weekend. But this history goes back way before that. So we’re actually going to start our story in 1866.

Alex: Wow.

Caitlin: I don’t even know how many years ago that was. 160, right? Something like that. And we’re going to start actually very similar to the origins of American football. Women’s pro baseball, or women playing baseball, started in college. So at Vassar College, they fielded the first organized women’s baseball teams. They called them the Resolutes. So very in line with the resolute desk is what I was thinking of. And there’s some historical diary entries or letters that students wrote back to their parents saying, oh my gosh, I love this. And we’ve talked on this podcast a lot about the sense of inclusion and community that people can get from participating in sport, men and women. And so it’s exciting to see that these opportunities were starting as far back as 160 years ago.

Other women’s colleges soon followed. So Smith, Wellesley, things like that. Throughout the 1870s they would field teams and they would play each other. But, as you will learn, is a theme throughout this history lesson, parental and press backlash shut these teams down. There was a general sentiment that it was not proper for women to participate in a man’s sport.

Alex: Okay.

Springfield, 1875: The Blondes and the Brunettes

Caitlin: So we will, like I said, it’ll be a theme. So we’ll have chances to comment on it a little bit as we go. We’re going to move ahead to the mid 1870s, so 1875. And this is going to be important because this is our connection to Springfield, Illinois. Springfield, Illinois is important because that’s actually where all of the WPBL games are being played.

Alex: Oh, okay.

Caitlin: So instead of having those teams travel, there’s four teams in this new league. They play all of their games at Robin Roberts Stadium in Springfield, Illinois. And they chose that, I think, as a nod to this little piece of history. So the quote blondes and brunettes, the first known paid women’s baseball game, was played in Springfield, Illinois in 1875. And if you think about it, like 150 years later, basically, now we’re back to that. I would also like to call out someone decided that we were going to do the team names based off of blondes and brunettes. So again, continuing our theme here.

The Barnstorming Era: Dolly Vardens and Bloomer Girls

Caitlin: Now, as we move into the 1880s and then all the way into the 1930s, so for about 50 years, we had what is known as the barnstorming era. So the Dolly Vardens, from 1883, is one of the first Black women’s teams to play. You also had the Bloomer Girls squads tour the country. So kind of think almost like the Savannah Bananas of now, where starting in the 1890s to the early 1930s they’d actually play mixed gender exhibitions against men. Future Hall of Famers Rogers Hornsby and Smoky Joe Wood actually got their start with the Bloomer Girls.

Alex: Did they play women versus men, or intermixed on both?

Caitlin: I think it was co-ed. I think it said mixed gender exhibition. So I think they’re all on teams together. Another notable name to know from this era: Lizzie Arlington becomes the first woman to sign a minor league contract in 1898. So again, women have been playing baseball for a long time. And then Maud Nelson stars as a player, then becomes a manager and a team owner.

Alex: Maud sounds like a manager.

Caitlin: Maud does sound like a manager. So we have some notables from that kind of 50 year period, late 1800s into the early 1900s. And then right around the turn of the century, there’s some other points of emphasis that we wanted to bring forward as we think back across this timeline. So Amanda Clement becomes the first paid female umpire in 1904. Alta Weiss, a pitching draw who funded medical school with her baseball earnings. So she actually was able to earn enough money pitching.

Alex: To pay for her school.

Caitlin: To pay for her school.

Alex: Okay, that’s cool.

Caitlin: Right? And so you’re seeing the first kind of examples of that independence. Like, I’m going to go generate my own income because I can do it through the sport. As opposed to around that time, it was very much not common for women to work outside of the house. Helene Britton, also around this time, becomes the first woman to own a major league team. She owned the Cardinals starting in 1911. And so what we’re starting to see is women are starting to make inroads into baseball, into different venues: umpiring, actually playing, and ownership. And we saw Maud, obviously, with the coaching piece as well.

Jackie Mitchell Strikes Out Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig

Caitlin: Moving ahead to right at the 1930s time point, kind of into our next era. I wanted to call out a specific story. So we’re going to talk a little bit for the next few minutes about Jackie Mitchell. Jackie Mitchell signed with the Chattanooga Lookouts, so Chattanooga, Tennessee, in March 1931 at the age of 17. She was the second woman ever to sign a men’s minor league contract, after Lizzie Arlington. And her neighbor and future Hall of Famer Dazzy Vance had taught her to pitch as a kid. So she was kind of mentored by this major league baseball player.

Alex: I love these names. These are all great names.

Caitlin: We should go back. Yeah, we could have changed some things with our kids. So fast forward, she signs this contract. April 2nd, 1931, there’s an exhibition game against the barnstorming Yankees. And she struck out Babe Ruth.

Alex: Okay.

Caitlin: Called third strike after two whiffs. And Lou Gehrig.

Alex: Wow.

Caitlin: Yes, three swinging strikes back to back. She struck those two out back to back. Public sentiment reacted, and it split fast. And so I think it’s interesting. We still see this today, we just see it happen a lot quicker through the digital age. But clearly things come up and immediately everybody feels they have to choose a side. So the sides in this case were, one represented as an example by the New York Times, they ran, quote, Girl Pitcher Fans Ruth and Gehrig, as the article title, and editorialized, quote, the prospect grows gloomier for misogynists. Well, the Chattanooga News praised her control and, quote, odd sidearm delivery, but much coverage treated it as a stunt and doubted whether Ruth or Gehrig played straight. So again, we’re here doubting a woman’s ability to play, because how on earth could a woman possibly strike out Babe Ruth or Lou Gehrig or whomever?

I think, again, we talked about how this was going to be a theme. We have long struggled, I think, to believe that women can be as capable or effective as men in perceived male dominated spaces. So Babe Ruth actually told the New York Times that, quote, women will never make good, they are too delicate. It would kill them to play ball every day, end quote.

Alex: Have you ever seen a picture of Babe Ruth? I think if he can play baseball day after day, I think women could play baseball day after day.

Caitlin: Yes. This becomes a tired defense that I think us women use too, but I just want to say, who gives birth to children?

Alex: Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. I don’t think he could give birth to a child.

Caitlin: It’s harder than playing baseball. Okay. So with that, Ruth makes the statement. Within days, commissioner Kenesaw Mountain Landis…

Alex: What a name.

Caitlin: …voided her contract.

Alex: Oh.

Caitlin: Citing that the game was, quote, too strenuous for women. An individual ruling that foreshadowed MLB’s formal 1952 ban on women’s contracts, which was not lifted until 1992.

Alex: So he was basically saying, I’m protecting you from this.

Caitlin: Yes.

Alex: That’s not what it is.

Caitlin: It’s not what it is. No. Yes, that’s how they frame it. And we see this consistently. Again, we’ve talked about it here many times, the infantilization of women. They need protecting, they’re weaker. When in reality, if this played out straight up, she was just good and capable and effective.

So the personal toll here was Jackie Mitchell had no one come to her defense. Not even her parents came to her defense to say, hey, why are you doing this? She just wants to play and she’s good. So she barnstormed for years afterwards. Barnstorming is, I think, they just kind of pull teams together and play. But she grew to resent being treated like a sideshow. Like, oh, here’s this woman who’s really good, almost like saying you’re a freak of nature to be as good. Like a circus type thing. She resented that, which she should. I think this even ties into our Pioneers episode, where we saw athletes like Althea Gibson used as this token symbol, when she’s like, I’m just good at what I do. And I’m not some representation of something you did. So I think because of that resentment, Jackie Mitchell sort of ended her career probably prematurely. She declined to join a semi-formed pro league that developed around the 1940s for women. And so it’s unfortunate. But when you face that kind of backlash and the lack of support that she did, it’s understandable.

The AAGPBL, the Charm School Contradiction, and the Negro Leagues

Caitlin: So now we are going to talk about that league there. And that was founded in 1943, like I said, founded by Philip Wrigley amid World War II manpower shortages. So as was common in many sectors in our country in World War II, all the men went over to fight in the war, and who was going to do all the things that the men were doing? Well, the women did, and they were damn good at it in a lot of cases, including playing baseball.

So the quote charm school contradiction came out through this. So they were like, we need people to play baseball because we’ve got to make money and that’s entertainment. We’re going to have the women do it, but we’re going to make them wear skirts, and we’re also going to have them attend etiquette classes, because that’s essential for how you perform on a sports field. Alex is losing his mind.

Alex: For all of those super polite and well-meaning men who were playing before.

Caitlin: Yeah, because they weren’t cussing or having at it. I know, right? It’s crazy. But it was largely quite successful. So peak attendance in 1948, so five years after it was founded, was over 900,000 fans across multiple games. Obviously, but that’s a lot. Almost a million people.

Alex: Yeah, that’s great.

Caitlin: The country’s population was not as big as it is today then, so pretty significant. And there was actually a parallel league running at the same time in Chicago called the National Girls Baseball League. Notice how they use girls and not women. And we actually see that continue today, where we kind of use girls to describe women, but men to describe boys. So a very fascinating time period. There’s a lot more history obviously there with World War II and the role women played throughout that, but interesting that it even touches on sport.

So moving ahead, or actually I should say in parallel to this, as you can imagine, Black women were not allowed to play in the AAGPBL. So they actually started their own league. A couple of women, names like Toni Stone, Mamie Peanut Johnson, and Connie Morgan, became the first women to play pro ball full time in the Negro Leagues.

So now we come up to a time period where these leagues have formed, women are playing, but then there’s sort of this gap. The AAGPBL, so many letters, folds in 1954. And if you’ve ever seen the movie A League of Their Own, that is sort of a story around this time period, when it folded and then these women wanting to play baseball and how do we reinvigorate that. So it obviously took 40 years, that movie came out in 1992, for that story to be reintroduced to the public, where there’s this gap where there’s no known record or anything formalized where women are playing baseball.

Maria Pepe and the Case That Opened Little League to Girls

Caitlin: In that time, there are some pockets of stories. And so one of the ones that we want to touch on just briefly before we move into talking about the WPBL is Maria Pepe and Little League. So this is not professional, and that’s why we exclude it from that historical gap. But in 1972, Maria Pepe tried out for a local Little League team, and she made the roster as a starting pitcher with her hair cut short. Not everybody realized that she was a girl at first. She pitched in three games before word reached Little League’s national office, which told the Hoboken league that it would lose its charter if she kept playing. So the coach had to come to her house and ask for her uniform back. And Maria Pepe described that as one of the most difficult parts, because you think about what a uniform represents. It represents belonging. It represents I’m part of something bigger than myself. It represents I made it, I achieved this. And her coach, who actually was quite supportive of her playing, and she was good, and he probably wanted to win, had to come take that away from her.

But then what ended up happening out of this was different from Jackie Mitchell, where her parents didn’t really support her in that challenge that she faced. They actually filed a lawsuit. So her removal drew local media attention, which then reached the National Organization for Women, who then contacted her family. And so that actually led to a case that opened Little League to girls in 1974.

Alex: Very nice. So I’m assuming at that point she was too old to play?

Caitlin: Potentially. I didn’t actually get that. That’s a good point. I didn’t get history on how that affected her. But you also wonder, that was probably traumatizing.

Alex: Yeah.

Caitlin: Right? And I think she was kind of left with this memory of coach coming and taking her stuff away. It took two years to settle that lawsuit. She probably may have aged out at that point.

Alex: I think it’s really interesting, the idea that they’re not good enough or not strong enough to play baseball day after day. But as soon as you have someone, even in a Little League, playing very well, it’s like, well, we can’t let this happen. It’s a threat. So which one is it? They’re not good enough, or they’re too good that they’re going to embarrass the men? It’s like they’re trying to hold so many different opinions of these women at one time.

Caitlin: I think there’s totally that. Some of the challenges that we’re seeing right now in the women’s sports community, or just the sports community writ large, which is, if you don’t look a certain way to an outsider, to some arbitrary standard that frankly have been set by men for so long, you could get reported and then investigated. And then whether it’s banned like she was in her case, or just even just mocked and ridiculed, which I’m sure she faced some of that as well.

So it’s interesting. As I was researching this, it’s fascinating how well we have progressed so far in terms of what is available for women from an opportunity perspective, and even a long, long, long way to go, but from a funding and access and viewership perspective. There’s still some of these root problems that persist, which is a whole other conversation that we’re not going to get into on this podcast. Maybe one day. It’s inherent in all of this always. But I think it’s really interesting to see that this is an age old fight that has had to go on. And something that’s really important related to some content that we’ve had recently around Title IX is Title IX is a piece of legislation which came out right at this time that really did impact that growth and that change that I just described. I fear if that had never happened, this would still be happening.

Ila Borders, Justine Siegal, and the Modern Pipeline

Caitlin: So as we kind of move forward into this more modern era, there’s a couple of names of note that are just kind of fun to know exist. So Ila Borders, 1997 to 98, becomes the first woman to start and win a men’s professional game. Justine Siegal, keep this name in mind, first woman to coach an MLB organization in 2015. And she founds Baseball for All, which is now the largest girls baseball organization in the country. And then the growth of women’s college club baseball, USA Baseball’s women’s national team, and the Women’s Baseball World Cup. That is really the pipeline that’s been available to make this new league viable again. So there’s probably a whole list of many pioneers within just this single sport that opened the door to what we could experience today. And it’s really exciting to see a formal league back on the table.

Inside the WPBL: Four Teams, One Stadium

Caitlin: We want to shift now to just talk a little bit about that league and how it got formed, how it’s funded, how it’s structured and how you can get engaged. So let’s talk about the Women’s Professional Baseball League. This was co-founded by Justine Siegal, I told you not to forget her name, and Keith Stein, and this was announced in October of 2024, so about two years ago now. Siegal was named the league’s first commissioner this past March in 2026.

And as I mentioned before, there are four teams that represent four different markets in the United States, but obviously I said they all play in Springfield for right now. So you have the Boston Hunters, the New York Heights, the Los Angeles Queens and the San Francisco Firebells. I’m going to explain the names in just a second. And they chose the site, I think, for just consistency. And there’s the historical nod too, but there’s media presence nearby.

Alex: Middle of the country.

Caitlin: Middle of the country, yeah. It’s accessible enough. And they sold out their first weekend, so clearly working for them so far.

So let’s talk about these teams a little bit, because it’s kind of fun. Each of them are named after a pioneering woman, not necessarily in baseball or sport, but kind of in their towns or cities. So the Boston Hunters are named after Harriot Hunt. She was the first woman to apply to Harvard Medical School. She’s a pioneering physician and activist, and their logo is like an osprey, bird of prey with a bat, and their identity is kind of grit and determination. So that is the Boston Hunters.

New York Heights are named after Dorothy Irene Height. She was a civil rights and women’s rights leader. Their logo is my favorite. You will see a hat of theirs on this podcast, but it’s like a skyline but also like a fastball. Like they worked that in. And then their identity is around ambition and relentless standards. So high standards. Heights. Like, we love it.

The Los Angeles Queens are named after Lizzie Murphy. She’s known as the Queen of the Diamond, and she was the first woman to play against major league players. They have a big Q and some diamonds in it for their logo. And their identity is bold and unapologetic.

And then the San Francisco Firebells are named after Lillie Hitchcock Coit. She’s also known as Firebelle Lil, and she was a champion of the city’s volunteer firefighters, which there’s a whole ton of history with fires in San Francisco, firefighting. And they have kind of a bell and phoenix logo. So thinking rise from the ashes type of thing. Also cool, all of these logos were designed by a woman led design agency.

Season Format, Rules, Rosters, and Funding

Caitlin: We mentioned they play at Robin Roberts Stadium in Springfield, Illinois. And the way the season gets structured is it’s 30 games, but as we love to do with baseball, it’s like, how many games can we play in one week? They play from August 1st, so like we said, started about 10 days ago by the time you’re listening to this, and it runs through the first week of September for regular season. Each team will play 15 games. Then they go into a best of three playoff round starting September 9th, which will lead to a championship.

Couple differences from the MLB. So women’s baseball, they play seven innings and they are allowed to use aluminum bats, which is the same as softball. But now, instead of the underhand pitch with the bigger ball, you are doing overhand pitching with the regulation size baseball.

From a talent perspective, we mentioned the collegiate club system and then obviously the national teams really helped to create that pipeline funnel for talent. For tryouts, they had over 600 players from 10 different countries come out. And they did a draft this last fall. And I think they’re really leading with some of these more well known players in their socials and their advertising. So names like Kelsie Whitmore, Ayami Sato, and Mo’ne Davis are going to be folks that you’ll see. They’re very much kind of the face of the league. Samaria Benítez as well. I think they’re going to be the people that you see a lot in their marketing.

And then lastly, just to round out this section, I’m going to talk a little bit about funding, because this is always very important. The league has a strategic partnership with Fremantle. So it’s a production, distribution, sponsorship, broadcast deal support. So they’re kind of on the operational side of the house. And then they have some capital investment. But what’s really interesting is there’s no formal connection to Major League Baseball.

Alex: Yeah.

Caitlin: And actually, fans have been really quick to call out that Major League Baseball has, as of now, done nothing to promote this. Not saying that they have to, but there is opportunity for these established men’s leagues to lean into these women’s leagues, or even just show support. It’s kind of interesting that the San Francisco Giants, the New York Mets or Yankees, the LA Dodgers, that you wouldn’t be like, cool, look at this, this is awesome. But again, there’s no formal connection, so it kind of makes sense. They have no obligation. But like I said, fans have been quick to call it out.

Alex: Yeah, for sure.

Caitlin: We shall see how it goes. This is their first season, four teams. Obviously they’ve got to test it out. We have a little bit of a proof point in the PWHL on how it could look. But there’s no big safety net for that right now.

Softball, Baseball, and the Collegiate Pipeline Problem

Alex: I think what’s really interesting is we just saw this past summer, I think, with the softball being shown on ESPN or wherever it was, we’re seeing a little bit more interest. Coming into this, I was thinking, we don’t see as much of the interest in women’s softball, obviously because it’s not played on national TV or anything. But there’s definitely a difference. Volleyball’s really big, right? So it makes sense that LOVB, Major League Volleyball is happening. I’m wondering if we start to see more of the women’s softball world series and things like that being played on national TV, that we do start to see more of that interest come into it and actually kind of start to help this league get propped up a little bit more.

Caitlin: Well, and it’s interesting too, because you make that comment about softball. At the collegiate level, that’s a varsity sport.

Alex: Yep.

Caitlin: Women’s baseball is a club sport at the collegiate level. So we don’t get, you’re not getting that same funnel. And so I think for fans even, there’s probably almost this assumption that softball is what women do.

Alex: Yep.

Caitlin: Baseball is what men do.

Alex: Versus basketball.

Caitlin: It’s just the same. Same with volleyball. So I think that’s a good point on how it actually is a really interesting problem to think about for their league. And how do you maybe partner? How do you tap into? I know AUSL just ended their season. They’ve been going for a while. Are there ways? But then you also don’t want to detract fans. I don’t know. It’s just something interesting to think about.

Alex: I thought it was really interesting when you said 1866, and I was like, that is insane that they have been playing for this long. And then I was like, well, we’ve been playing baseball forever. And so it makes quite a bit more sense, but it was just so long ago. That’s so wild to me that it has been that long.

Caitlin: Yeah. And it was really fun diving into the history and learning, A, how far back it goes, B, how frequently women have tried to find ways into the sport, and where they’ve been successful in their play.

Alex: I do think it is one of those sports too where women could much more easily play against men realistically, versus some of the other sports. I think Serena said tennis, men and women are completely different, it’s a different game, whatever. I feel like baseball is one of those ones where a pitcher could be really successful, or first base, you could be really successful in some of those different positions.

Caitlin: Yeah. So we will have a couple games coming up this week for you to check out in our what to watch, but I highly encourage you go check this out. You can find them on social media. Anything WPBL is going to direct you towards that. You can find a team you like. Like I said, I guarantee you I will have at least one of the team’s hats by the time the season is getting to the playoff point, if they can get them back in stock quick enough. But excited to watch. I enjoy some baseball here and there. And I think it’s probably even more, for me at least, more fun to go try to watch if it’s women playing. So we’ll keep an eye on that and keep y’all posted on how you can engage.

NWSL Playoff Race: The Last Two Spots

Alex: All right.

Caitlin: I’m going to pivot.

Alex: Yeah, let’s pivot here to, we’re going to talk NWSL and we’re going to do some discussion around who we think the last two in are.

Caitlin: Yes, to the playoffs.

Alex: Yes, to the playoffs. So we have about, what is it, 30 total games, the whole league remaining. So about 12 to 14 per team. And we are looking at an end of the regular season around, I think it’s October 4th.

Caitlin: Yes.

Alex: So we are currently sitting at, in order, Gotham, Washington, Utah, San Diego, Kansas City, and Portland are our top six. We’re looking at who would be our next two that we think would be in. Currently, number seven is North Carolina, and number eight is LA.

Caitlin: Yes. And I think we’re going to talk through a couple of these teams. We’re going to leave it for right at the end to say, do we think anybody is going to fall out of that top six, or anybody that we’re not talking about in the middle group going to come on strong? And so we’ll get into that.

As you look at the standings right now, I would say Gotham, Washington, Utah and San Diego kind of look like it’d be unusual for them to not make the playoffs. Kansas City and Portland, North Carolina is one point behind Portland, two behind KC. That’s one game swing, depending on how things go. I think generally speaking, we feel like those top six are likely to still make the playoffs. It’s just kind of where they finish.

So like Alex said, we’re going to talk about seven through 10, and I’ll kick us off talking about North Carolina, who’s currently in seventh place in the standings. So they have 27 points, as I mentioned, played 17 games, eight, six, and three. They currently are averaging about 1.7 goals per game, 1.35 goals against. So they’re positive from a goal differential perspective, but they do have a tough slate in the back half. They play games against all top six teams, at least one. They play San Diego twice. They also have six home games and eight away games. And if we look at their record, they are more successful thus far at home. They have the same number of wins at home versus away, but they’ve played more games at home.

And so you just never know how that’s going to go later into the season. You also start to get where the weather, you can start to get cold, things like that. Now, what they do have going for them is they have Ashley Sanchez on their team, who is part of this golden boot race that’s going on right now that somehow Barbra Banda is still leading, even though she’s been gone for international duty for a few weeks. Actually, not somehow. She’s incredible.

Caitlin: When you have somebody who is one of those just consistent threats, she’s basically good for a goal every other game. I think for me, the questions that I would have are around, where’s your other scoring coming from? And then how consistently disciplined is your defense? And I think just even looking at their goal spread, there’s not a lot of space there. And so if anything kind of breaks down, you could end up on the wrong side of a result. So to me, I think North Carolina could hang around, but we’re going to talk about these three other teams, and I just feel like there’s some threats knocking on the door, for sure.

Alex: So, Angel City, they are sitting at number eight right now. They have played 16 games. They have 1.5 goals per game, 1.06 goals against. So just maybe a little bit more.

Caitlin: Better spread.

Alex: But lower on both, kind of interesting there. Six of their last 13 games are against the top seven teams, so not an easy schedule here. But if they can win those, they’re going to do a lot of leapfrogging to help them out a lot. What I put here is that their upside is that their defense has started to look a little bit better. They’ve strung together a few clean sheets, so that’s looking a little bit better. But also, consistency. They started 3-0 and then kind of collapsed at the beginning of the season. Then they beat San Diego, Chicago, and dropped one to Louisville. So that, with the coaching, is just like they don’t really have the consistency there.

Caitlin: I think I saw too last week, one of their more lethal offensive threats went down with an injury, and I never saw the follow up from that of, was it more serious?

Alex: I think she’s okay. I think she’s still a threat.

Caitlin: That would be a real loss for them. I think a lot of their goals per game, I should say, actually came from early, early in the season. She was scoring like a maniac.

Alex: Yeah. I think a lot of their goals have been coming from the flanks too. So they’ve been working that.

Caitlin: Yeah. Okay. They do seem to be streaky.

Alex: Yes, they can be streaky. Exactly, consistently streaky.

Seattle Reign, Orlando, and the Expansion Sides

Caitlin: All right, moving on to the number nine team. I’m going to take us through Seattle Reign. If you had asked me three weeks ago, even two weeks ago, if I thought I would be talking about the Seattle Reign as a contender for the playoffs, I would have probably laughed at you. We talked about them before. They’ve struggled to score. They’ve struggled to win, frankly. But here they are. I think one of the things Alex pointed out a few episodes ago is the parity in the league is so high, where there’s maybe two gimme wins, or they should be. But that’s why we play the game, as we like to say here.

So like I said, Seattle has struggled to score goals. They’re right now sitting on 23 points, 16 games played. So they’re in this neck and neck race with LA and Orlando, who Alex is going to talk about. But all three of those teams are four points behind North Carolina. They have a minus one goal differential, which is not great, but they have a favorable schedule to close out. They’re one of the only teams that we looked at that actually has favorability in terms of a couple of factors. From my perspective, they have 13, 14 games to go. Only three of those games are against top five teams.

Alex: All right.

Caitlin: So they’ve already played the Spirit twice. They’ve played Gotham twice. They played Utah once. They have to play them again.

Alex: They had a couple of games against Chicago.

Caitlin: That’s right. They also have an upside in home versus away, and they’re back at Lumen Field. So for the beginning first half of the season, they couldn’t play at their home field, Lumen Field in Seattle, because Lumen was being used for the men’s World Cup. They had put the fresh grass down and they were like, you can’t be here. They were playing at, I think, University of Washington nearby or something. They have not really been home, but now home is home for real. And they have eight games versus six on the road of those remaining 14 games.

And then the third thing to me that’s really interesting is I just mentioned that they’re sitting tied right now with Angel City and they’re four points behind North Carolina. Well, pretty quickly in this start of their 14 game run, they will play Angel City twice in that period, and they will play North Carolina. So they have a little bit of own destiny.

Alex: Yeah, they can leapfrog pretty easily.

Caitlin: Yeah, if they can get the right results in those games. Whereas when I was talking about North Carolina before, they don’t really have a lot of own destiny control. And so they’re relying a lot on how do these other teams perform.

Alex: Yeah.

Caitlin: So Seattle’s got a chance. And they got Jess Fishlock back, which her veteran presence, her goal scoring ability, her goal creating ability is really unmatched. And she’s also kind of on a little bit of her swan song. This is her, she’s retiring at the end of the season. You’ve got Laura Harvey, who is just a legendary coach out there. I wouldn’t put it past them.

Alex: They could do it. Moving on to Orlando, they have played 18 games. So they are getting there. By the time you will have listened to this, they’ll have played another one, so they only have 11 games left by the day this comes out. Seven of those come against teams in the top six.

Caitlin: So they’re playing the top six every other week, basically.

Alex: So it’s going to be a hard one there. They are at 1.22 goals per game and 1.44 goals against. So a little bit underwater here.

Caitlin: We have talked about their defense a few times on this podcast.

Alex: And I put that their upside is Barbra Banda.

Caitlin: I mean, that’s a great upside to have.

Alex: 12 goals in 15 games.

Caitlin: That’s crazy.

Alex: Just absolutely phenomenal. Their downside is also Barbra Banda. Over-reliance on her. She’s gone at WAFCON. They lost to North Carolina, five nil. If you’re over-reliant on a single player to get you somewhere, it’s not going to end up well.

Caitlin: So you agree, and we’ve talked about that before. One semi silver lining for Orlando, not for Barbra Banda, is that Zambia was eliminated out of the group. So now she gets to come back. Whereas Temwa Chawinga, the KC Current, Malawi qualified to move on to the quarterfinals, which is amazing in their debutant run, and Nigeria just snuck in there in that group. So they do get Banda back.

So I think we said at the beginning, we wanted to say, did we think there were any outside of those four that we just discussed that could potentially drop out, any that could rise? So right outside of the seven through 10, you have the two expansion teams. You’ve got Denver and you’ve got Boston.

Alex: Denver, yeah, I mean.

Caitlin: It’s possible.

Alex: They’re at 20 points. So they’re only three points out of eighth place.

Caitlin: It’s possible. Ask me again after we go to the game. They just got their player back.

Alex: Yes.

Caitlin: But she didn’t play in the midweek because of some kind of knock. So I hope we get to see her play. But I do think I’ve talked about their advantage in the back half of the season before, and that they have a significant number of more home games because of their stadium situation to start the season. And they have the altitude, which can play a huge role, depending on travel schedules for their opponent. So it’s possible. They’d have to be pretty consistent, and I don’t think that we’ve seen the consistency to win from either Denver or Boston. You also could have an Orlando or an Angel City or whomever, they could fall out too. We’ve talked about this a lot. It’s going to be fun to watch. Again, that parity just makes it really interesting. And how fun would it be actually if a team we’re not talking about, here we are, Houston, we have a problem.

Alex: I just realized something. It’s really interesting since we started this podcast that we used to be like, we want our team to be the best. And now we’re like, we’re watching the teams that are barely going to scoot their way into the playoffs.

Caitlin: Yeah, that’s the fun part right there. We can be the disruptors.

WNBA Playoff Picture: Liberty, Mystics, Sky

Caitlin: All right, let’s move on to the W. We are live getting updates on our Lynx right now, which is not going great. Not going great for them. But they are still at the top of the table. They can afford to lose a game here or there. They will not be falling. They are on a 10 game winning streak. Probably will end tonight now. So do you want to take us through the top list again, and then we’re going to have the same structure? Take us through what we’ve got left.

Alex: Number one, Minnesota. Number two, Las Vegas. Number three, Golden State. Number five, Indiana. Number six, Dallas. Number seven, New York. And number eight, Washington. And then just let me give you nine, 10, 11: Chicago, Los Angeles, and Phoenix.

Caitlin: So depending on which team you’re talking about, you’ve got about 11 to 15 games in the season. Schedules have been a little weird and the last regular season game day is September 24th. But that’s a little misleading, because we have a 17 day break from the end of August to September 17th, when they resume play, for the FIBA World Cup in Berlin, I think, in Germany somewhere. And so that roster was just announced today, I think mostly no surprises, but you have players who are going to be going and playing during that break. And then you come back and you have like two to four games depending on your team, two to three, I think, actually. And so that break actually could be really interesting too, for how this finishes out.

Alex: I’m really liking the break, actually, because it gives some of the other support players some time to rest and get ready for the playoffs, if you’re headed there.

Caitlin: Yeah. You do wonder though, again, we talked about this with the World Cup break first on the NWSL side, does it slow momentum down going into the playoffs? That could be detrimental.

So we are going to talk again, last two in, quote unquote. And so our seven through 10, as Alex just said, were the New York Liberty, the Washington Mystics, Chicago Sky. And then we couldn’t just pick one, but we had to talk about both the Los Angeles Sparks and the Phoenix Mercury. And the reason for that I will explain when we get to that point. So you’re going to take us.

Alex: Yeah, talking about the Liberty, looking at their schedule, it’s not terrible, but it’s not super great either. They’ve got the Aces, Fever twice, Dream twice, Valkyries, and the Lynx. And then they also play the Sun, the Sky twice, the Tempo, and the Sparks. So a few potential gimmes in there, quite a tough schedule of the rest of the league there. I think they stay in. Personally, I think they stay probably in eighth place. They’re in seventh now. I think they could probably go down to eighth place with the Mystics surging. I think the Mystics, we’ll talk about it here in a minute, but I think they have been surging. I think they have a favorable schedule and I think they’re going to bunny hop over the New York Liberty.

Caitlin: Interesting. Yeah. I mean, I think that they’re going to hang on to playoffs by the skin of Breanna Stewart’s teeth. She’s the only consistent piece for them this year. I think they’ve seen glimmers from Marine Johannès, Pauline Astier, Sabrina Ionescu as she’s come back from injury. Nyara Sabally basically hasn’t played since early June, maybe even before that, because of the concussion. And it’s just, we’ve talked about Chris DeMarco, I think in our last episode, he just doesn’t seem to have figured out how to use his personnel as effectively as we’ve seen that personnel be used in the past, because it’s a lot of Jonquel Jones, another name to mention there. So they have these fits and spurts, but they don’t have what feels like a really consistent go-to game plan where you know how to dominate teams. And it’s either that, or they’re not very good at adjusting to teams when they throw things at them. So I think they will hang, but I think it’s going to be on the back of Breanna Stewart, so they better freaking hope she stays healthy. Because I think if she gets hurt or something happens to her, that might be game over for the Liberty.

Alex: Moving on to the Mystics. Like I said, schedule’s pretty favorable. They only have to play the Aces twice, Dream once, Lynx once, Fever once.

Caitlin: Only have to play the Aces twice.

Alex: But then they have to play the Mercury three times.

Caitlin: Oh wow.

Alex: The Sky twice, the Sun, the Sparks, the Tempo, and the Fire. So all kind of the lower side of the league.

Caitlin: Yes, but what’s interesting about that though is, I go back to, you control your destiny. You’re playing the teams that you need to beat, that you need to get ahead of or stay ahead of, which for some teams that’s really helpful. I know I’m probably not going to go out and beat the Las Vegas Aces. I’ll give it my all, but that one we know could be a loss. We know we have to get up for Phoenix, or Chicago.

Alex: Basically what I said the last one, I mean, they’ve been surging. I think they probably hop over the Liberty. They’ve been finding their groove lately and I think they can stay in.

Caitlin: Yeah, I think the challenge that I see for the Mystics is, and we’ve talked about this all season long, is their youth. They’re young. And so when you get to the, it’s fun when you’re just kind of playing games and like, okay, let’s go out there and give it our best shot and we’ll see if we win.

Alex: Yep.

Caitlin: When you get to where games are like, we have to win.

Alex: Yep.

Caitlin: That’s a different kind of pressure. And now to be fair, they have a lot of youth on their team who have played at the highest level in college. You’ve got a couple of this year’s national champion UCLA Bruins. You’ve got Sonia Citron and Kiki Iriafen, who, while they’re not rookies, they’re younger players, but they almost play like vets for that team. So I’m not counting them out by any means, but I do think that that pressure shift will kind of show how do they hang, and how does head coach Sydney Johnson guide them through that, knowing that that’s going to be something that could affect them differently. But I like them. We’ve been talking about them all year. They’re good.

Alex: And they’re great on social media. They have so much fun in that locker room.

Caitlin: They do look like they’re having a lot of fun. You kind of want to root for them.

Chicago Sky, the Kelsey Plum Trade, and the Sparks and Mercury

Caitlin: All right, I am going to talk about the first team on the outside right now, which is Chicago Sky, who I’m pretty sure were in 13th a couple weeks ago.

Alex: If they could win one out of every two very close games, they would be in sixth place, I feel like.

Caitlin: All right, here’s my take. They have a very difficult remaining schedule. They have to play the Fever twice. Now, both of those are at home in Chicago. And they have to play the Valkyries twice, but they split that, but they have to go into Ballhalla, which you don’t usually come out of that with a win. They have what I call deciding games. They actually have two shots at the Liberty and two shots at the Mystics. So those are the two teams right ahead of them. And that’s a home away split for both. So they do have a little bit of control your own destiny.

They don’t have any players going on that FIBA break. For them, it could be a good time, like you said, to rest, really game plan. You know at that point, I know what needs to happen in these last three games. Hopefully they’re still in the conversation at that point. Because of their lack of ability to actually win the close games, I think they have the most losses of any team this year in one score games, or in games where they’re leading with some small amount of time left. I don’t know if they can close it out. I just don’t know if they have the killer instinct.

I think Sydney Taylor has been playing out of her head, but she can even be a little bit streaky. I think Kamilla Cardoso is one of, could be one of the best bigs in the W, but she gets in foul trouble really easily, and that means she has to come off the floor and you can’t impact the game that way. They have some interesting injury stuff going on. I think Skylar Diggins is still out. Obviously DiJonai just came back, but she’s just coming back, kind of finding her footing. So they just feel like they’re not in a stable position with the team.

Alex: Not clicking there.

Caitlin: There’s just not enough. I always wonder with this team, how different would it look if Rickea hadn’t torn her ACL? Not to put a ton on her, but she was playing so well.

Alex: She could have been that missing piece that actually makes everything kind of click together.

Caitlin: Exactly. Her gravity helps other players and things like that. I think Sid, like we’ve talked about, Sydney Taylor’s doing that, but she’s not a Rickea Jackson. Will be watching very closely their series left with the Liberty and Washington. Because if they can sweep either one of those, then maybe it’s a different conversation.

All right. Sparks, Mercury. Couldn’t pick one, had to pick both. The reason why, because we just traded Kelsey Plum from the Sparks to the Mercury. So now everybody’s like, maybe the Mercury will make a push.

Alex: Maybe they could pop up, yeah.

Caitlin: Okay, let’s level set though. The Sparks and the Mercury right now are sitting on what, 11 wins, well now 12 for the Sparks and 12 for Phoenix. They are both six games, six and a half games behind Washington in eighth place.

Alex: Yeah. That’s a tall order.

Caitlin: That’s a tall order.

Alex: Especially with, like we said, with the Mystics’ schedule.

Caitlin: Correct. So in my view, now the Sparks just beat my Lynx, which is annoying to me, but I don’t think they have a chance. They have to play Golden State twice. They have to play Atlanta twice. They have to play the Mystics twice. Again, I do like the control your own destiny line. They have to play the Aces and the Lynx once.

Alex: Yeah, that’s tough.

Caitlin: Tough. So you’re talking about eight games of your remaining 12. And you are six games behind.

Alex: Yeah. Not great.

Caitlin: Now, the Mercury also, I think, have a tough sled, but not as tough. What’s interesting about the Mercury…

Alex: They play Washington three times.

Caitlin: They play Washington three times. So if they could sweep Washington, or even take two of one, they have Vegas once and Dallas twice. And that’s kind of it. Like they’ve played the Lynx, they’ve played, like they’re kind of past, they’ve played the Fever. There’s possibility there.

Alex: And they could pull it out.

Caitlin: And they do look different with KP. And right now she’s playing restricted minutes. And as she kind of gets back into form and is playing more, they have a lot of veteran leadership. Now, they also have, I think, Copper and KP are both going to FIBA. So they don’t get that rest period. You know, what could happen.

Alex: I don’t think it can happen if they beat Washington two or three times, it’ll be interesting.

Caitlin: It could be.

Who Falls Out of the Top Six?

Caitlin: So that’s kind of our seven through 10 assessment there. When it comes to the question of any potential plummeters from our top six, I have one in my opinion. Indiana Fever face quite a challenge going into the back end of the season here. So they played the Aces tonight. That was their last game against them. They lost that game. They have to play the Liberty twice, which the Liberty need to win.

Alex: Yeah.

Caitlin: Right? So that’s the other thing, is like now as these top teams are playing, the Lynx just lost to the Sparks. You have teams that need to win against teams that don’t necessarily need to win. They have Dallas twice. Dallas beat them earlier this season. And they have to play Minnesota twice and Atlanta once. Atlanta has beaten them twice. Minnesota has beaten them. So between Dallas, Minnesota and Atlanta, they haven’t beaten those teams yet this year. They have a much better home record than away record. Their remaining game schedule is six home, eight away. So I had called that out. I was like, why are they always playing at home?

Alex: Yeah, you did.

Caitlin: And now it’s going to come back. It’s like, now you have to play a lot away. So they’re at the Lynx, the Liberty, Dallas and Dream. And then they have to go play two at the Sky, who need to win games. So I just feel like there’s potential there.

And all of this comes together. The Fever have good pieces on their team, don’t get me wrong. When they are on, they are very, very difficult to beat. However, we’ve talked all season long about their defensive struggles. They give up a lot of points. And I think that there is a lot of distraction around that team. They get more media attention. They are the team who every game is nationally broadcast. I mean, just tonight they had fans escorted out of their arena because they were saying something inappropriate to one of the Aces players. So there’s always something coming up that they’re having to navigate that is not just how do we play good basketball.

They also have Stephanie White, Caitlin Clark and Aliyah Boston all going over for FIBA. So they have these kinds of disruptions. Other teams have that too. But you kind of layer it all together, and to me they’re the one team, if I look at that top list of six, that looks most tenuous in their position based on some of these factors.

Now, they also have cheat code Kelsey Mitchell, who knows how to go out and just take over games. They have reasonably consistent scoring from Aliyah Boston and Caitlin Clark, and then their role players are still kind of, I think, figuring out how to be consistently effective. But they can get good contribution from a Timpson, from a Cunningham or a Hull. But it’s not consistent. So that’s why I say that. Any thoughts?

Alex: My only thought I had on plummeters was I did not go stats. I went with feels. And my feels were Atlanta. I mean, they’re in fourth place right now, but they had that five game skid right before the break. And so I’m just worried that if they get on a skid, they might not be able to get out of one. I don’t think they’ll maybe drop out, but they could plummet.

Caitlin: Yeah. What did I say about Atlanta early in the season? It was like, they just needed to get out of their own way. If they just kind of can play ball the way that they should be able to, they’re fine. But the challenge is they seem to get in their own way a little bit. So I appreciate that feels analysis. I think that makes sense.

And then any potential soarers outside of who we talked about, I said absolutely not. I think I did the math and Seattle I’m pretty sure is mathematically eliminated. I think Connecticut would have to win out basically at this point.

Alex: I don’t think they would even get there.

Caitlin: I don’t know. So we’re going to start to get to the point, we just learned tonight on the Lynx broadcast, we didn’t even know that if they had won, they would have clinched a playoff spot. So we’re starting to get to that point too, where you’re going to start to see elimination and clinching. And that also changes the game plan for some of these teams that start to clinch. Do you start to rest players? And so are there some wins to pick up for a Chicago or a Phoenix? So in some ways, maybe it’s good if you’re playing some of the top teams a lot at the end. We’ll see.

What to Watch This Week

Caitlin: All right, let’s wrap her up.

Alex: All right, we’ve got what to watch. WAFCON semifinals. Is that this Wednesday? No, this is the Wednesday that you guys are listening to this. We’re recording this very early.

Caitlin: So we don’t know who’s playing.

Alex: Yeah, we’ve got Wednesday noon and 3 p.m., and then we will have a final Sunday at 2 p.m. You guys are on your own to figure out where you’re going to watch that.

Caitlin: We don’t know how to get you to watch it.

Alex: Look for a pirate stream somewhere or something, I don’t know. It might be the only thing.

Caitlin: But I do want to call out, the teams that make it to those semifinal games, important to note, will be the teams that have now qualified for the World Cup. So huge accomplishment for all of those teams. And the top two teams out of the quarterfinals go on to that. So the quarterfinals that will happen before you listen to this episode are quite important for those nations.

Alex: All right. WNBA, Friday we have Dallas Wings at Indiana Fever, 6:30 p.m. on ION. Saturday, it’s like a repeat: Minnesota Lynx at Las Vegas Aces, 7 p.m. on CBS.

Caitlin: I didn’t even have to delete everything, just change the order of the teams.

Alex: Sunday, Phoenix Mercury at Portland Fire, 6 p.m. on ESPN.

Caitlin: Yeah, so you’ll see, just even based on our conversation just now, we’re going to start spotlighting more games that are critical to this playoff push in our what to watch.

Alex: NWSL, Friday we have Gotham versus Kansas City Current, 7 p.m. on Prime. Saturday, Portland Thorns versus Orlando Pride, 7:45 p.m. on ION. And then Sunday, Angel City versus Washington Spirit, 8 p.m. on ESPN. For the LPGA, we have the Portland Classic going on.

Caitlin: I think it’s on Golf.

Alex: Usually those are like Golf Channel.

Caitlin: Maybe CNBC or CBS.

Alex: WTA, Cincinnati Open, August 12th through 23rd.

Caitlin: And this is, Venus and Serena are a doubles wild card draw. So you can kind of try to track where and when they’re playing. We don’t know that draw, the timing of when they’ll play, quite yet.

Alex: And then WPBL, Friday, San Francisco versus Los Angeles at 6:30 p.m. On Saturday, we have San Francisco versus Boston at 1 p.m., Los Angeles versus New York at 6:30 p.m. And then on Sunday, Boston versus New York at 6:30 p.m. All right.

Caitlin: All right. Close it out.

Alex: Yeah, is that it?

Caitlin: You need to do momentum and setbacks.

Alex: Oh yeah. We are too close to when we recorded last that I have not had time to think about those this week.

Caitlin: My momentum and setback are one and the same, in that this is a crazy week event wise for me and I am so tired, but they’re so, so worth it. So I’m looking forward to our travels, and we will be back by the time you hear this episode. But we’ll have this out, we’ll have a little bit of an update in our next episode on how the game went and all the things, back with our regularly scheduled programming.

Alex: Follow us on Instagram, Threads and YouTube, RTG underscore pod, RTGpod.com, Substack, Raising the Game podcast, and raisingthegamepod@gmail.com.

Caitlin: All right. Thank y’all for being here.

Alex: Bye.

Caitlin: Bye.