Episode 28 - Is It Still Fair to Assume the USWNT Wins? Pay-to-Play, Global Parity, and a WNBA Roundup

Cold Open and Intro

Caitlin: Is it actually fair for us to just assume that the U.S. women’s national team will win? And I think the answer is no. Hi, I’m Caitlin.

Alex: Hi, I’m Alex.

Caitlin: And this is Raising the Game, a women’s sports podcast covering primetime performers, the business behind the athletes and the leagues, and what the growth of women’s sports means for the next generation.

Alex: We’re back. Is this episode 28? 28, all right. We are here again. I can’t think of anything right now. Starting to lose count at this point, which is a good thing.

Caitlin: It is.

Alex: I think we’ve got quite a bit to cover. We’re going to go in depth tonight on an interesting topic about the different programs different countries use for their soccer talent pool.

Caitlin: Yeah, we’re glomming on a little bit to the World Cup fever that’s been going on with the men’s tournament here in the States. Wanted to take a little peek ahead to the women’s tournament next year. And I’ll just put it this way, I think I have a bold thought experiment. I won’t call it a hypothesis quite yet, but a thought experiment about something I think the U.S. women’s national team needs to be on the watch for.

Alex: Yep. We’ll also talk WNBA, NWSL, and a WNBA roundup as well.

Caitlin: As usual. I mean, can we go a week without wild news in the WNBA?

Alex: Not right now.

Caitlin: No. All right, favorite thing. You got one?

Alex: Yeah, I think mine was our youngest had a birthday party this weekend and we got to sit outside on our newly built patio and watch the Lynx game with all of our family members. It was very nice.

Caitlin: Yeah. Our youngest, she turns four tomorrow, and our girls, as you all can probably imagine, have a certain level of enjoyment for women’s sports. Probably they may feel it forced upon them by their parents. But I am super excited because we decided, for both of our girls’ birthdays, our oldest is at the end of the summer, to get them Olivia Miles jerseys. And then we’re taking them to a Lynx game in early August. I’m really excited to see how they react. Bigger than that, to me it’s more of the symbolism behind it. That’s something that’s accessible to them. Obviously the WNBA was around when I was a kid, but just the way that they can experience sports and have role models is really cool. They love Olivia Miles. They love a lot of players in the W.

Alex: Yeah, you probably did not have the WNBA on every single night like we do right now.

Caitlin: No, because I think we maybe got like 12 games a season that were broadcast nationally. That was not a primary fixture in our house.

Alex: Yeah, for sure. All right, should we move on to headlines?

Caitlin: Do it.

Headlines: Wimbledon, Golf, Rowing, and Gotham’s New Home

Alex: At Wimbledon, Czech Linda Nosková defeats fellow countrywoman Karolína Muchová in a thriller to clinch her first Grand Slam trophy.

Caitlin: Yes.

Alex: Serena alludes to plans to play in the US Open this fall. You called it.

Caitlin: We clocked this last week.

Alex: We did. I don’t actually think it was that big of a clock.

Caitlin: I feel like the rumors were already swirling. But I will take credit.

Alex: South Korean Haeran Ryu wins the Evian Championship in a playoff over Canadian Brooke Henderson for her second major title in the span of three weeks.

Caitlin: So she also ended up making LPGA history by being the second player to win two majors in a year. That’s never happened in LPGA Tour history where two players have won two majors. Nelly Korda was the other one. She won the first two earlier this year. Very cool to see.

Alex: U.S. rower Kelsey Fenler rowed from California to Hawaii in 44 days, breaking the women’s record by 42 days and the men’s record by eight days.

Caitlin: She broke the record by half.

Alex: Basically, yeah. Insane.

Caitlin: How do you just decide to do that?

Alex: You’ve got to be a certain kind of crazy, I think. Gotham FC will make the brand new Etihad Park their home beginning in 2028.

Caitlin: So we had talked about how this was potential and now it’s confirmed. This will move the team from Harrison, New Jersey to Queens, New York, which is very different. They’ll be sharing with the primary tenant. Etihad Park is being built for New York City FC, the men’s MLS team there, but the space is currently being designed with Gotham in mind. There are going to be some Gotham-branded spaces, and a lot of digital signage so they can easily change it out. This also comes on the heels of, just a couple weeks ago, their training facility being built in Whippany, New Jersey. Etihad has a capacity of 25,000. Something that has befuddled the NWSL pundits is that you have this club that’s really successful, but they don’t tend to get great attendance in Harrison. So I wonder if this is a calculated move to get closer to a more densely populated area. Queens is one of the most diverse boroughs in New York, so I think you’re going to see a lot more fans.

Alex: ESPN to air Life in the W, a six-part docuseries following WNBA stars A’ja Wilson, Napheesa Collier, and DeWanna Bonner through the 2025 season.

Caitlin: Oh, I am sad for that. It’s going to premiere next weekend, in conjunction with All-Star Weekend, which I think is a calculated move. It premieres July 24th on ESPN2. You can also find it on the ESPN app. I would definitely recommend watching.

Alex: I don’t think I can relive these injuries. I don’t want to do that.

Caitlin: That is very true. A little bit traumatic.

WNBA Roundup: Firings, Records, and a Letter from Congress

Caitlin: Getting into a quick roundup of WNBA highlights, Alex and I will rapid-fire through these. The L.A. Sparks fired their GM, Reagan Pebley. The team is five and five in their last 10 games, 10 and 11 on the season, ninth overall in the league. So not horrible, but I think they are way underperforming for what their roster is.

Alex: And just lost another one tonight. WNBA record attendance in Montreal with almost 21K out to see Paige Bueckers and Marina Mabrey put on a show.

Caitlin: Yeah, both Mabrey and Bueckers had 34 points. They were cooking. Marina also featured in our next highlight. She had a shoe thrown at her by a New York Liberty player during their game on Sunday. The player was ejected. It actually sounds like it was a momentum-shift moment in the game, and the Liberty are on a slide of epic proportions right now.

Alex: Kennedy Carter waved by the Aces.

Caitlin: This shocked all of us. We’re like, wait, what? Clearly there’s something outside of the basketball at play, and that’s all we’ll say about that. Speaking of the Aces, they set the record for the biggest point swing from a win to a loss in WNBA history with 82 points. They won against the Phoenix Mercury on Saturday by 48, then turned around and lost to the Indiana Fever on Sunday by 34. Kudos to the Fever, they had a great game plan and executed well. But my goodness, not a record you want.

Alex: Chicago just can’t beat the Wings, losing after having a fourth-quarter lead for the third time this year.

Caitlin: That is rough. We’ve seen all three of those games and it’s tough. And then, in maybe the weirdest WNBA news of the week, 11 members of Congress wrote to Commissioner Cathy Engelbert demanding action to protect one player. I don’t really know what’s going on there. There are a lot of things I would personally rather Congress focus on, but we can agree we need consistent officiating and to prioritize player safety at all times.

Alex: I’m not going to get started on this one. We’re moving on. Rapper Flavor Flav offered again to cover all travel, glam, and wardrobe costs in support of the U.S. Women’s Ice Hockey Team, who are nominated for Best Team at the ESPYs, to enable the full team to be there.

Caitlin: I love this story. What Flav recognized was that if you get nominated for Best Team, a lot of times you’re only allowed to have three or four players there. And he was like, no, we are celebrating everybody. I’m getting everyone tickets. I hope they win, because I would love it if that entire team gets to go up on stage.

Alex: And didn’t it come out that Paris Hilton was like, we’re going to give you two million Hilton points each?

Caitlin: Yeah, I’m sure they’re jumping in.

Alex: The U.S. women’s national team announces October friendlies against world number one and defending World Cup champions Spain.

Caitlin: What did I say to you earlier today? I said, Emma Hayes wants to win the 2027 World Cup. She is scheduling. She is not shying away from fire in these buildup games. First game is Saturday, October 10th at Audi Field in D.C. My brother lives in D.C., I was thinking about flying out there. I’m just saying. And then they’ll play again on Tuesday, October 13th at Subaru Park in Philadelphia.

Alex: And that’s right before their November qualifying game against El Salvador.

Alex: The U.S. women’s national team’s 2019 equal pay lawsuit with U.S. Soccer means the women’s and men’s teams split World Cup earnings equally. Both teams will earn $6.4 million from the men’s team’s round-of-16 achievement.

Caitlin: Yeah, this equals out to about $246K per player for both teams. There’s a portion that goes to U.S. Soccer. And depending on how much the women earn next year, some of their winnings will also go to the men’s team.

PWHL, a New Baseball League, and Minnesota’s Wild Weekend

Alex: In the PWHL, teams are upping their venues, with the Ottawa Charge officially making Canadian Tire Centre their home arena, and Boston Fleet changing their primary arena.

Caitlin: Agganis Arena is closer to the Boston courts, right on the campus of Boston University. I looked it up on a map today. It is so much closer to central Boston than the previous center. Capacity is about the same, but I think they’re making that play for we can get more people here if we’re closer.

Alex: Also reported last week by Ian Kennedy of The Hockey News, the PWHL is exploring adjustments to roster format to address depth issues.

Caitlin: The current format is 23 rostered players plus three developmental players. The three proposals are: keep the status quo; go to 24 rostered and two developmental; or, the most popular among players, go to 25 rostered slots and no developmental players. It’s a favorite because the developmental contracts are $15,000 each, which is basically nothing. So that’s the most popular with the players. We’ll see what happens.

Alex: Together Media Brands launches an Everyone Watches Women’s Sports podcast in collaboration with iHeart Women’s Sports.

Caitlin: Did you want to tell everybody that we’re already on iHeart Radio?

Alex: Yeah, we’re already on iHeartRadio. In other launch news, the Women’s Professional Baseball League launches its media campaign a few weeks ahead of its first games on August 1st.

Caitlin: We’re actually going to do a bit of a deep dive on this ahead of some travel we have in August, so a pre-record for you all, but a heads up, it’s coming. There are four teams. They’re playing all their games in Springfield, Illinois at the Robin Roberts Stadium. The Boston Hunters, the New York Heights, the Los Angeles Queens, and the San Francisco Firebells are all named after historical women pioneers in baseball. Regular season starts August 1st and runs to the beginning of September, then playoffs start mid-September and roll to the end of the month. All four teams play in one spot, and you can catch all the games streamed for free live on YouTube.

Alex: Taking a page out of the PWHL book. Amazing. And for our Minnesota sports fans, a few updates. The Gemini are third.

Caitlin: Can I just say, women’s sports were wild in Minnesota this weekend. Saturday was nuts.

Alex: The Gemini, from the Women’s Elite Rugby league, are third in the standings, two points out of first with two games to go, July 19th against Denver Onyx and July 26th against top-ranked Bay Breakers.

Caitlin: And a shout out to A Bar Of Their Own, our local women’s sports bar, who hosted watch parties for everything that happened Saturday, including the Lynx, Wimbledon, the Vixen, the Aurora, and the Gemini.

Alex: Speaking of which, the Vixen are National Championship-bound after a walk-off win last Saturday to win the American Conference in the Women’s Football Alliance.

Caitlin: Yes, the WFA.

Alex: And our local women’s soccer team, the Aurora, had an undefeated regular season and won the Central Conference Championship, but fell in the national semifinal to Salmon Bay FC on penalties over the weekend. Controversial all around. They had to travel coast to coast, and there was a late 89th-minute penalty to force extra time.

Caitlin: Unfortunate for the Aurora. Undefeated all year, I think they only allowed one goal. They’re consistently so good, but always tend to run into some trip-up in the playoffs.

NWSL: Parity and the Race for Playoff Spots

Caitlin: All right, that was a flavor of everything going on in women’s sports. Let’s dive into some soccer. We’ll take a spin through NWSL and talk standings. Haven’t changed too much from last week, but Alex and I each picked a topic, and then we’ll get into this hypothesis. The top five teams didn’t change at all. Week over week there’s a little shuffling. What we’re really watching is the bottom four qualifying for playoffs. It’s going to be a wild ride. Between the fifth and sixth teams, Utah and Kansas City on 24 points, and six points back you’re including Seattle and Denver on 16, it really feels like anyone can win on any given day. The parity is really high.

Alex: That’s my spot. What I wanted to dig into is that middle section. We have some lower teams beating the top ones. Chicago beat Utah 3-2, which was a big surprise given how Chicago’s been doing, and Utah had been on a 10-game unbeaten streak. Angel City, more toward the middle of the table, beat San Diego two-nil this past weekend, which was a shocker.

Caitlin: Huge shocker. And I’d throw in the Rain beating Portland on Sunday.

Alex: And Gotham beat Utah this past weekend too. Going back to what we talked about before the break, who’s going to come out of this? Utah had that really good unbeaten streak going in and they’re just not finding their footing. I think the parity this year is very interesting. It shows the health of the league is very good. You have a lot of depth across the entire league that allows almost any team to win on any night. It’s going to be a wild ride to the end of the season.

Caitlin: Yeah, think about what the break afforded teams: rest to get your legs fresh, but also time for coaches and staff to really dig into a game plan. A Seattle Rain could have built a tight plan for a Portland Thorns, or an Angel City for a San Diego. I was looking at something on Threads, and someone said, hey, I’ve been watching the men’s World Cup and now I want to get into NWSL or other women’s leagues. Which is funny, watching the men’s World Cup but wanting to go watch women’s soccer, and we are here for that. People were asking which women’s leagues are really competitive. You’re going to get top talent in the European leagues, Barcelona, Manchester City, but the bottom of those tables are not very good. Whereas in the NWSL you get quality play across the board, all 18 teams. I thought that was interesting.

Alex: That was my main spiel. I just think the parity is really interesting this year.

Caitlin: Agree. And building off that, the last couple years you kind of had Orlando Pride running away with the regular season two years ago, and Kansas City last year was the very clear best record. With that, I’m actually really focused on Orlando Pride right now. We’ve talked about them on and off. Concerns for them on defense, but they also boast Barbra Banda, who is very much in the front row for the Golden Boot. She’s got 12 goals so far. She had a little knock in their last game before the break, so she played limited minutes, but they beat Kansas City 3-0. I saw that score and I was like, ooh, that’s interesting.

Caitlin: It was kind of, you had Kansas City starting to rise after a rocky start, and Orlando also starting to rise going into the break. Kansas City wasn’t quite at full strength. Debinha was on limited minutes with some illness, and Michelle Cooper was out with back spasms. But we had Marta score a 30-yard shot, the most casual touch, no one defending her.

Alex: She was like, I’m still the goat here.

Caitlin: She’s probably just upset that she’s got to keep playing so she can beat Lionel Messi for most goals in a World Cup. It was brilliant. That was actually her first goal in the run of play in over two years. She’s only scored from the penalty spot since then. Seven minutes later they scored on a corner, didn’t guard their center back, who was free for a header. And then Barbra Banda came in and scored, capitalizing on a goalkeeping error.

Alex: It’s interesting, they’re getting the goals spread around. Before the break, Banda was scoring all the goals. We were like, she can’t be the only one. So it’s good to see them move it around.

Caitlin: From a standings perspective, this is interesting because Kansas City are in fifth or sixth, Orlando’s in eighth, and North Carolina lost to Washington, which brought Orlando a little closer. Now, Orlando’s goalkeeper still had to make nine saves. That’s a lot in a professional match. Kansas City wasn’t able to capitalize on chances they generated. I watched the highlights and they missed a lot of opportunities. I think Orlando still has a defense problem. The question is whether they can keep getting offensive production from people besides Banda. This wasn’t a shutout by virtue of excellent defense, it was great goalkeeping and Kansas City missing chances.

The Deep Dive: Pay-to-Play and How Six Nations Develop Talent

Alex: Let’s dig into this women’s soccer development hypothesis. A theory, we’re going to test it, do some research.

Caitlin: Let’s frame it up. Last week, the U.S. men’s national team lost to Belgium in the round of 16 on Monday. One of the conversations that came out of that was a critique of the U.S. youth system and the structure known as pay-to-play. The general sentiment is that at a certain point you start to price out kids and families who may have really high ceilings because they can’t afford to shell over thousands of dollars. That made me think, as we’re watching the World Cup, how do other countries do it? And then I went further: we just had arguably the worst finish in a World Cup for the U.S. women’s national team, an abject failure for that program. We’ve talked a lot about parity among nations and more investment going toward other federations, their women’s programs, academies, club investment. So my bold thought is: is the pay-to-play system in the U.S. actually creating a ceiling that the rest of the world is now catching up to? We’ve avoided the repercussions largely because of Title IX, which passed in the 70s and opened the door for women to play in college. College functions as the academy-style development in the U.S. There are certain clubs you play for if you want to go play in college, and if you don’t play for those clubs, you’re not going to play in college. So I wonder if we got the jump because of that legislation. It wasn’t as well funded as it could be, but it was much better funded than a lot of other nations. I wanted to explore how other nations do it, and why we’re seeing the recent success of an England and a Spain. Is that happenstance, or is there something more? My bold hypothesis is, is it fair for us to expect the women to just continue to dominate and win, unless we think about the structure differently? Emma Hayes has started to think about the U.S. soccer structure differently, but she hasn’t had time, nor maybe the power, to influence the funnel that goes into U.S. Soccer.

Alex: Do you want me to set the stage? We have six nations: the U.S., Spain, Japan, England, Brazil, and Colombia. We’re going to talk about the structure of each, the cost, coaching emphasis, and participation, and then do a little analysis at the end.

Caitlin: We obviously couldn’t do every nation. The five you’ll hear about first are arguably thought of as the top five teams in the world right now, give or take. And then Colombia is really one of those disruptors, an interesting contrast example I wanted to bring in.

Alex: Starting off with your favorite, the United States Women’s National Team. They are the current world number two, 2015 and 2019 World Cup champs, 2023 round-of-16 exit, and reigning Olympic champions. Anything other than a win is basically thought of as a failure at this point. Our structure is pay-to-play. You can’t just pick up a ball, go to a club, and say I want to play soccer. There are many academies and leagues, but you have to pay to play. The average family pays around $1,400 a year at the low end. Elite clubs push that up past $10,000. Total annual cost for a high-level club can range from $5,000 to $20,000 once travel, showcases, and private training are included.

Caitlin: I mean, it’s like daycare.

Alex: It makes sense, this is America, we’re going to privatize it and make it cost a lot. So our coaching emphasis turns to exposure and showcase-driven stuff, where you’re essentially paying to get in front of scouts, versus being so good that you get in front of scouts. That’s the ceiling for us: your parents have the money to pay, so you go play college ball, versus you actually having higher-level talent.

Caitlin: I want to point out, we’re not saying the players coming through those systems aren’t talented. They are very talented. The question, and no one can prove this, is whether we’re missing out on even more talented youth because at younger ages their families couldn’t afford the steep costs. I have a friend whose son has started to explore this, and you can get asked to join these clubs, but then all of a sudden they’re like, oh, actually give me $5,000. That’s hard for parents. I just wanted to be clear we’re not saying there’s a lack of talent in the U.S. We have quite skilled footballers.

Alex: Some stats on participation: high school girls’ soccer had almost 400,000 players in 2024 to 25, around three and a half to four percent of U.S. girls age 14 to 18, and it’s the third most popular high school sport. Total youth soccer participation across both sexes is up 23 percent since 2018, and they think there will be more with the World Cup. There’s a retention issue, though, where 70 percent of kids quit soccer by age 14.

Caitlin: For many, you could say it’s a cost barrier. I’d also asterisk it and say for girls around that age is when you really start to feel the effects of puberty, and if you’re not in the right environment to navigate that and play a sport, you’re going to quit.

Alex: Exactly. We’re going to move on to Spain as our number two.

Caitlin: Spain is the current world number one, defending World Cup champions, fourth at the 2024 Olympics in their first Olympic appearance, and 2025 Euros runners-up. They’ve had quarterfinal finishes in 2013, 2017, and 2022, but a lot of their highest success has come very recently. So what’s in the water over in España? Their structure is club-academy driven. Their clubs, like Barcelona, have youth academies where they get kids really young and drive them all the way through. That’s unique relative to England, which is more federation-driven. U.S. Soccer is a combo of the two. What’s interesting is they offer on-site residency, so they literally go live in these compounds where they eat and breathe soccer. The cost is largely subsidized, almost entirely free to families. The clubs invest a lot because they want to curate the best talent for their first teams, so they ensure cost isn’t a barrier. What that means is extremely competitive selection. To stay in the club and keep access to that training, coaching, mentorship, and development, you have to be on your game all the time. That’s a different challenge, but it’s probably getting them the best talent in their regional area. Coaching emphasis is on technical mastery and positional intelligence, and they’re instilling these values as young as seven and eight, building the same mentality all the way through to second or first team in their mid to late teens. That’s a hell of a foundation. It’s a philosophy-first system, and it’s translated into growth on the girls’ and women’s side. Soccer is now Spain’s second most federated women’s sport behind only basketball, with a direct, measurable dividend in the professionalization of their Liga F, their NWSL over there. And a World Cup win. Since 2022 they’ve seen massive growth in their girls’ and women’s programs, which generates a nice pipeline.

Alex: Coming to Japan, who we’ve talked about quite a bit. Nadeshiko. They are the current world number five, 2011 World Cup champs, 2015 runners-up, 2019 round of 16, and 2023 quarterfinals. They’re the 2012 Olympic silver medalists and have won Asian Cup championships in 2014, 2018, and other years. Their structure is a bit more dual-track and unique. They have school clubs central to developing players, so it’s built into the school system, plus some federation-run academies similar to a boarding school.

Caitlin: Run by their federation.

Alex: Yes, run by the federation, and they say they’re built to develop top-10-in-the-world individual talent. The other interesting part is it’s all built into the schools’ infrastructure. So if you want to play, you can play, and it’s set up for anyone to do that, which is interesting when we talk about participation. For coaching emphasis, they have the WE League, their first fully professional women’s league, explicitly founded to be the driving force for gender equality and to reclaim the World Cup for Nadeshiko Japan. They’re big on discipline, technical repetition, and fair play as a point of national pride, which we always see when we play them.

Caitlin: It’s a national ethos. They’re the ones who clean up the locker room, and the fans clean up their areas of the stadium. I love that.

Alex: When it comes to participation, they have some stagnation. They’ve plateaued around 50,000 players since 2014, despite winning the World Cup in 2011. And they’re attempting to get to a goal of 200,000 registered players by 2030, meaning they’re at 25 percent of their own target with three and a half years left. Part of this is a lower female playing population compared to the other nations.

Caitlin: All right, I’ll take us through England next. Another top-tier team, England being the current world number four. They won the Euros in 2022 and 2025 and were World Cup runners-up in 2023. Something interesting, and we didn’t mention it with the U.S. because it’s not confirmed, they’re currently the sole bid along with Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales to host the 2035 World Cup. A lot of times federations inject a lot into their programs ahead of a World Cup because they want to win at home, which is interesting to think about with the U.S. having the 2031 bid. For England, this is federation-driven. The FA’s centralized approach has been rapidly professionalizing since 2022. They developed emerging talent centers, over 70 now, serving ages six or eight to 16, replacing the old regional talent centers. Coming off the 2022 Euros, that was the spark for the Lionesses. The challenge at the time was a lack of diversity on the team, not enough players from different areas of the country, and some access barriers. They sought to change that with these emerging talent centers. From there, players advance around 14 to 20 to professional game academies. These are all run by the federation, not in association with specific clubs, which is different from Spain, and different from Japan, where it’s all school-based. The cost: as a result of those Euros wins, a ton of money has gone into decommodifying this structure. The Premier League committed 6.8 million pounds over three years specifically to make these ETCs free. Removing that cost barrier opens the pool. Their emphasis is on access and diversification. Can we double the number of girls in these FA talent programs while also boosting staff and referees? Right now they have almost 900,000 girls playing football in an organized setting, up 26 percent since 2018, and nearly three million registered female players under the overall FA remit. In this case, and with Spain, momentum for growth, funding, and investment is directly tied to results for the senior side. Participation rose another five percent in the five months following the Lionesses’ back-to-back, with female coaches up 12 percent and referees up 29 percent year over year. One thing to add: England still has to qualify, just like the U.S., for the 2027 World Cup, and arguably has a harder path. It’s interesting to watch, because how would losing a qualification impact this growth?

Alex: Absolutely. Should we move on to Brazil? They are the current world number seven and the upcoming World Cup host nation. 2007 World Cup runners-up, 1999 third place, quarterfinals in 2003 and 2011. Olympic silver medals in 2004, 2008, and 2024.

Caitlin: They were pretty dominant in the aughts.

Alex: And Copa America champions nine of ten times from ‘91 through ‘25, only missing in 2006. They own South America basically. This one’s a whirlwind. They had to rapidly formalize after underinvesting. Women’s football was banned from 1941 to 1979. As recently as 2024 a few federations organized under-17 tournaments, and now more than 22 do. As of this year, Serie A clubs are required to run fully funded U-17 and U-20 teams to obtain their license, which is a great forcing function. Investments are surging ahead of the World Cup next year. They’ve allocated 23.4 million reais to their women’s program, but access is still uneven outside the bigger clubs. There are grassroots efforts to fill gaps in favela communities with free training. They quintupled the registered professional players from 214 in 2022 to 1,058 in 2026. The emphasis is on quantity and continuity of competitive minutes, with that traditional creative, technical style.

Caitlin: And physical.

Alex: Physical style, yeah. We have the professional numbers, but it’s harder to get the lower-age numbers than for other nations. Like we said, structured growth is being mandated by requiring those U-17 and U-20 teams. The big question is whether they can continue that growth, or whether it’s an expansion built on fragile foundations. Some clubs down there have recently folded, so is it something that can scale?

Caitlin: As we move into Colombia, we’re going to see some similar themes. Generally in the Latin American and South American countries, women’s football has been hugely underinvested in. The fact that they can even compete on these world stages is really impressive given the lack of support. You think of the dominance of Brazil with just 214 registered professional players in the early going. That’s impressive and speaks to their tactics and approach, which we may not appreciate as much as we should, but it’s clearly effective. Colombia is currently ranked world number 20, and they’re on a bit of a surge, storming onto the world stage these last couple years. They’ve been around, Copa America runners-up since 2010, but their biggest claim to fame was a quarterfinal appearance at the 2023 World Cup, only their third time qualifying, and quarterfinals at the 2024 Olympics. Very recent success, not because of any structure behind them. I’ll use Linda Caicedo, who is really their generational talent, as our example. You have a very unformalized approach. A lot of players have no girls’ or women’s program to participate in, so they play with the boys. As a result, their style is more physical, faster, quicker, and they can adapt quickly. You get the benefit of bringing that style up against teams that aren’t accustomed to that physicality. We saw that in the U.S.-Brazil matchup, and you see it when the U.S. plays Colombia. It’s largely public and informal, so it doesn’t cost a lot, but you’re not getting much either. In Colombia, identifying talent is basically word of mouth, so you’re hoping the right person finds out about you. Improvisational, physical play is a big part of their philosophy. One interesting thing is they’ve recently begun formalizing coaching education, going off a Barcelona-based program and approach to training. That’s a good start, training up coaches so they can then build teams and training centers. There’s some indication of growing investment, a significant increase in dollars flowing toward the women’s national team. The challenge is a lot of those dollars are going to the senior team and not necessarily the developmental pipeline. So something for us to watch with Colombia.

Alex: One of my big takeaways, and it’s easy because we understand the U.S. system, is that expecting the U.S. women’s national team to just win the World Cup every year may not be it. With pay-to-play, we’re going to get talented individuals, but not necessarily someone who may have been more talented but had to drop out 10 years ago. And you may have other teams where it’s more ingrained into cheaper systems that bring more parity to the international game.

Caitlin: After doing this deepish dive, I agree with you. That was the whole premise: is it actually fair to just assume the U.S. women’s national team will win? I think the answer is no. It’s not fair to them, and it’s not fair to these other nations who are investing. Let’s appreciate the quality and the competition we get to see. Before I put a bow on it, I do think Emma Hayes is a once-in-a-lifetime coach who will do everything in her power, as we’re seeing in the lead-up to the World Cup, to ensure this team is as prepared as possible. Zooming back, a couple things stand out. England and Spain had significant investment based on recent success, and sometimes the support of women’s sports feels fragile: if you’re not producing results, does the investment go away? These things take time. Just because England doesn’t make a World Cup semifinal, or Spain has a rough result, soccer can be a brutal game, that doesn’t mean you remove the funding. A lot of times a coach doesn’t get you there and it’s, get them out. But these things take time to cement, and if you’re not willing to let it all marinate, you’re never going to get the results you want.

Alex: It’s a little like, the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the next best time is right now. You don’t want to cut down the tree because it didn’t grow the way you thought. You have to give it time.

Caitlin: Right. And it makes me wonder about some of these significantly underfunded nations like Brazil and Colombia. Is Brazil’s an artificial investment to promote the World Cup? I can’t imagine the expectation on that team going in. Will it sustain, and can we raise the level across the board? Japan is a nation that clearly has participation issues, so how do you get more girls to come out and play? Eventually that pool you’re picking from is so limited. They’ve had sustained success, which is really impressive, and maybe it’s because the self-selection mechanism means you’re only getting the people who really want to play. Anyway, it was really interesting to explore, and something we’ve got to think about heading into 2027.

WNBA Standings, Expansion Teams, and the Dallas Wings

Caitlin: Moving on to the WNBA. We’ll do a quick overview of standings. Similar to NWSL, there’s movement but not much at the top. The top four teams don’t really change, maybe shift a spot or two: Minnesota, Las Vegas, the Valkyries, and Dallas. A couple weeks ago Atlanta and the Liberty were in the mix and both have had significant slides. Then the next eight teams: Indiana, Atlanta, New York, the Washington Mystics, the L.A. Sparks, Portland, and Toronto, keep jumping and shuffling up and down. And the bottom four just stay down there. All that said, we have pretty decent parity in this league too, where any given night any team can win. Connecticut beat the Lynx last week, then the Lynx righted the ship midweek, and Chicago almost took down the Wings again.

Alex: It’s interesting that Washington’s up at eighth now. I did not have them that high.

Caitlin: They were in my challengers bucket. They’re sneaky. We’re heading into the All-Star break, which starts about a week from when you’re listening. All the teams get a little rest, minus the All-Stars. Why don’t you take us through your spotlight?

Alex: My spotlight is the surprise of the expansion teams. Portland and Toronto are in 10th and 11th, which sounds way down there, but they’re 10 and 13, not doing terrible. A lot of times when leagues expand you expect the new teams to be total punching bags. At 10th and 11th, they could totally jump up if they find their groove. As a reminder, Toronto has Brittney Sykes, a former Defensive Player of the Year who tied the three-point record two weeks ago, and rookie Kiki Rice. Portland has our beloved Bridget Carlton from Minnesota, Megan Gustafson, who they got from Las Vegas, and breakout Carla. Portland’s opener drew a sellout crowd of 19,335 earlier this season.

Caitlin: And they just played in Montreal.

Alex: Yep, with almost 21,000. Golden State proved last year that expansion teams can compete, and I’m interested to see where Toronto and Portland end up.

Caitlin: There are teams you don’t really want on your schedule. They’re in 10th and 11th, but tied in wins with the Sparks at nine and one behind Washington. They’re not that far out of the playoffs, and I wouldn’t be surprised if one of them sneaks in. They’ve been fun to watch. Marina Mabrey is always a good time, and that Portland team plays really well as a unit. Their coach is a little eccentric. I saw a video early in the season where they did a practice not wearing shoes, touching grass or something. Apparently expansion is not a scary thing in the W, which is great because we have three new expansion teams coming over the next three years.

Caitlin: My spotlight is Paige Bueckers and the Dallas Wings. You spotlighted them a couple months ago, and I’ve watched them more lately. They’re very good. If you think about where they came from and where they’re at now, the year-over-year growth is impressive. Early in the season there was this whole selfishness-in-the-locker-room narrative, and now Jose Fernandez looks like maybe a genius. They’re seven and three in their last 10, fourth overall, fifth in points per game, seventh in rebounds, second in assists. They share the ball really well. They’re seventh in opponents’ points per game, and that’s where they get stuck, defense is a bit of a struggle, and it’s the deciding factor in the games they lose. But their offense hums. Jess Shepard, the former Lynx player, is thriving. There’s commentary about why Minnesota didn’t use her more, but she was behind Napheesa Collier, arguably the second-best player in the W. She has 15 double-doubles this season and three triple-doubles. Her court vision for a big is great, really fun to watch, and the pick-and-roll game with Paige is cool. Then you’ve got Azzi Fudd, who had a slow start, seemed unsure what she was allowed to do, but is settling in. When you see Azzi shoot, it’s a pure stroke.

Alex: What’s interesting is early on Olivia Miles was running away with the Rookie of the Year conversation. I still don’t think Azzi beats Olivia Miles, but I see her stock rising in the race.

Caitlin: I think that’s right. Defensively, we knew Azzi was a good two-way player coming in, and she’s proven it. She’s leading all rookies in steals and blocks, and in three-pointers made. If she maintains that pace, she’d join Tamika Catchings, a five-time Defensive Player of the Year, MVP, and champion, in rare company. Love to see her growing into her professional career. And I’ve got to finish with Paige. Paige Bueckers is the best guard in the WNBA hands down. You can’t argue me off that point with the way she’s playing. I’ve watched four or five games in the last couple weeks where they’re down in the fourth and she takes over. Her step-back in the mid-range, creating space with the dribble, is unmatched, and her length helps her a lot. For all the people saying she doesn’t get guarded, I don’t know what you’re watching. She’s averaging 20.7 points, 4.2 rebounds, and 6.3 assists per game. She’s top five in points and seventh in assists. She’s helped take this team from a 10-win season last year to 16 wins already. There are also the intangibles: the leadership, the competitive edge, and she shows up in a press conference and says all the right things.

Alex: An additional dimension she has is in some of the social media posts she’s goofing around. She’s super competitive on the floor with a looseness about it, perfect in front of a camera, and a goofball when she doesn’t need to be serious, which is the combo you want in a player.

Caitlin: We’ll be tuned in. Girls love Paige, and she’s from nearby where we live, so it’s great to see her success. Shout out to the Dallas Wings.

Alex: They’re doing great.

Caitlin: We beat them three times and don’t have to play them anymore, so I can eye-hunt right now. I’m just kidding. I really like them. They’re not a team I want to see in the playoffs, that’s for sure.

What to Watch, Setbacks, and Momentum

Alex: Let’s wrap this up with what to watch, and some momentum and setbacks. In the WNBA, we’ve got the New York Liberty at the Dallas Wings on Thursday, July 16th, 8 p.m. Central on Prime. Then Portland Fire at Minnesota Lynx Saturday, July 18th at 7 p.m., on your local channels or WNBA League Pass.

Caitlin: At least it’s at home.

Alex: Yeah, you don’t have to go to the Fire. And finally, Las Vegas Aces at Toronto Tempo on Monday, July 20th, 7 p.m. on Peacock. In NWSL, Kansas City Current play the San Diego Wave Friday, July 17th at 7 p.m. Utah Royals play the Orlando Pride Saturday, July 18th at 7:45 p.m. on ION. And Chicago Stars versus Angel City FC Saturday, July 18th at 5:30 p.m. on ION. In Women’s Elite Rugby, three more games, all on Women’s Sports Network: Boston Banshees versus Chicago Tempest Saturday, July 18th at 4 p.m.; Bay Breakers versus New York Exiles Saturday, July 18th at 7 p.m. Central; and our very own TC Gemini versus the Denver Onyx Sunday, July 19th at 5 p.m. Central. They have two more games left, I want to figure out how the end of the season works there.

Caitlin: I know, I tried to look it up and it was really hard to find. That’s going to be some big Minnesota women’s sports moments the next couple weekends.

Alex: Absolutely. Momentum and setbacks.

Caitlin: Let’s do setbacks first. My setback is that it has become almost untenable to be a WNBA fan. I genuinely told Alex that I needed to not go on our broadcast social media account because people are arguing with us in not the nicest ways in the comments. Even just reading stuff when we’re trying to get caught up on storylines, it’s icky. And it’s not just online, it’s what’s being brought into the broadcast room, the letter from Congress, all of it. The reputation and view of the league is starting to sour for some people. You’re supposed to be having this historic 30th anniversary, and there’s really a cloud over it in a lot of ways.

Alex: And while this is happening, the Commissioner is playing in a golf tournament, not really saying a lot about the other things happening in the league.

Caitlin: Yeah, she last-minute canceled a live interview she was supposed to do on the Dan Patrick show. It sounded like her and her PR team weren’t talking. There’s a lot going on. To me, there’s so much goodness being overshadowed by this pocket of negativity, and I don’t think we have the right leader in place to navigate us through this moment.

Alex: I agree. My setback would be Utah and their couple of losses. They really need to figure it out. They don’t want this to turn into a five-game slide. I was hoping to see them continue that streak a little longer.

Caitlin: It’s interesting to see if they can right the ship. But I like the parity. I like that there isn’t one dominant team. It makes every game worth tuning into. For momentum, I’m sticking with the W: the crash-out queen herself, Marina Mabrey. If you haven’t watched her, she plays on the Toronto Tempo. She was the July player of the month in the Eastern Conference, averaging 38 points in that span, with a 53-point game and 34 against the Wings the other day. That woman can shoot the three from all over the floor. We always think of Caitlin Clark for deep threes, and Marina Mabrey has the same range, with a swagger and a goofiness and lightness to it. She’s tough, she won’t back down. And, first All-Star, which is awesome. Shout out to Riri, or the Chef, as they call her.

Alex: My momentum, if you roll the tape back a minute, you can see me longingly looking at my notes on the floor trying to think of one. I had thought of one and then ADHD took over and I forgot it. Actually, I want to say the Minnesota Aurora. Losing the semifinal isn’t how you want to end the season, but they had such an amazing season. They’re ballers. I did hear there are potential changes in how money or team sponsorship works in the USL, so crossing our fingers. Hopefully this podcast takes off and then we can buy them. Just crossing fingers that their record helps them move up to that next level.

Caitlin: Eventually, we need a team.

Alex: We do.

Caitlin: That’s a good one. All right, is that it?

Alex: Yeah. RTG_pod on Instagram. I’ll be running it this week. RTG_pod on Threads, rtgpod.com, Raising the Game on Substack, raisingthegamepodcast at gmail.com.

Caitlin: Seriously though, like, subscribe, share, drop us a comment. It’s also nice when we get nice comments, we tend to interact with those more.

Alex: Shout out to Vines242.

Caitlin: Vines242.

Alex: We love you, man.

Caitlin: All right, till next week. Thanks for being here.

Alex: Bye.

Caitlin: Bye.