Episode 25 - Serena Returns, NWSL Comeback, and a WNBA Heat Check

Episode 25 opener and milestone stats

Alex: Yeah, what is it? The Aces can’t beat the Wings. The Wings can’t beat the Lynx. The Lynx can’t beat the Aces. So far. The Valkyrie can’t beat the Lynx. Yeah, there’s a weird big circle thing going on.

Caitlin: Hi, I’m Caitlin.

Alex: Hi, I’m Alex.

Caitlin: And this is Raising the Game, a women’s sports podcast covering primetime performers, the business behind the athletes and the leagues, and what the growth of women’s sports means for the next generation of women’s athletes.

Alex: Here we are, episode 25.

Caitlin: Halfway to the goal.

Alex: Halfway to the goal, I think, that you set for us.

Caitlin: Halfway to the goal, about halfway through the year.

Alex: Yeah.

Caitlin: We’re still here.

Alex: We’re still here. Loving it. Having a good time. We’ve got a lot of fun stuff tonight. We are going to look into the NWSL. I believe we’re going to talk about…

Caitlin: We’re almost out of women’s soccer purgatory.

Alex: Yeah, we’re going to get there. We’re going to talk about the NWSL coming back. What the World Cup has meant for the NWSL, as a little bit of a piggyback off of last week’s episode, and really get y’all hyped for return to play.

Alex: Yeah, then I think we’ve got some PWHL coverage.

Caitlin: Yes, the draft happened last week. It did come with drama.

Alex: See how right we were.

Caitlin: Spoiler: we were not very right.

Alex: We did get a lot of the top 10 picks correct, just not in the right order.

Caitlin: And then round it out with…

Alex: Of course, WNBA.

Caitlin: WNBA action. We’re at about that test point that Alex has been mentioning, or had mentioned as his thing to watch as the season got started, right? About 15 games in for all teams. So a little bit of a heat check: where are we at, and what do we expect to see in the next 15?

Alex: Absolutely. Should we do a favorite thing?

Caitlin: Yes, we should.

Alex: All right. You go first, because I have a bunch.

Caitlin: Oh, okay. So my favorite thing, there may have been a few, but this one was really timely. Last night I was watching the first ESPN Sunday Night Women’s Sports broadcast. We’ve talked about that here, where they have officially made that part of their standard Sunday night programming in the summer. And you have this classic matchup in WNBA, kind of the historical annals of, New York Liberty versus the Los Angeles Sparks.

Of course, we’re celebrating 30 years in the W, and so they really played it up. They’ve got former stars there. Lisa Leslie, Rebecca Lobo is obviously calling the game. You’ve got Teresa Weatherspoon. You have two teams right now in the W: the Liberty, who are a dominant force, a perennial contender for the title, who really seemed like they were hitting this stride. They had jumped to third place in the league. And then you have the Sparks, who frankly have really been struggling. They’ve really been bolstered primarily behind the play of Kelsey Plum and not really much else.

They were down by like 15 or 16 points at one point in the first half to the Liberty. The Liberty have all these all-stars. The Sparks are there. They’re covering Kelsey Plum, like she’s not really getting the open look. She kind of looks hesitant out there. And it gets down to the wire. Last possession, Sparks are down by two. Erica Wheeler with the kick out to the top of the arc to Nneka Ogwumike. We call her Madam President. Hits the three to win by one at the buzzer. Nneka’s number is 30, we’re celebrating 30, she’s the one who is the leader through this historic CBA. What a wild thing.

Alex: That was awesome. My favorite thing is, Caitlin doesn’t know what I’m about to do, so here we go. We have some stats for our first 25 episodes.

Caitlin: I’m nervous.

Alex: Total listeners so far: 1,950. 896 on Spotify and 1,054 views on YouTube.

Caitlin: Oh my goodness.

Alex: Yeah. Number two: the total ums, uhs, and silences over 24 episodes. We said “um” 1,019 times, “uh” 742 times, and we had 270 silences longer than three seconds.

Caitlin: All right, I have something to say about that, but you keep going.

Alex: Countries, there have been at least 14. The Spotify analytics are not great at pulling out countries, so most of those are on YouTube. We had one viewer in India. Total words spoken: 324,645 words across 24 episodes. Using 70K words as average novel length, we have spoken 4.6 novels worth of words.

Caitlin: Amazing.

Alex: Distinct sports and leagues covered: we have 58. Episode 19 was our most listened to with 141 combined listens. It covered PWHL Playoff Chaos, the Detroit Expansion, WNBA Season 30 Opens, and NWSL Week 7.

Alex: Number of times we said “like”: 5,787. Four per minute over the course of our episodes. Instagram metrics: 792 followers. 150 posts over the last 90 days. 340,000 views. Reached 170,000 accounts. 16,500 interactions. 10,200 likes. 1,100 comments. 744 saves. 1,900 shares. And 283 reposts.

Caitlin: Wow.

Alex: Distinct athletes mentioned: in the neighborhood of 75 to 80. And we had 2,142 times that we started our sentences with “so.” So those are our stats for the first 24 episodes.

Caitlin: That is fun. Thanks, babe. I can’t tell if it’s a critique of how we’re speaking. Do we need to make improvements? Maybe. I would like to say that pausing and waiting to formulate your thoughts is a better move.

Alex: It is filling space. 100 percent.

Caitlin: You’re never really going to take that away. We could maybe drop a few “likes” here and there.

Alex: Well, um, maybe “like,” all right. Should we move on to headlines?

Caitlin: Yes, I love it.

Headlines

Alex: All right. Serena is back, set to compete in the singles tournament at Wimbledon as the final wild card.

Caitlin: Okay. Back. We knew she was going to compete in doubles with Venus, but then all of a sudden she drops this news in the middle of the week last week that she is taking that final wild card. She said something like, “Would it matter to you if I came back?” And then the next day she announces it. In addition to obviously competing in singles in this wild card spot, she’s competing with Venus. I was listening to an interview with her and she said that Olympia, her older daughter, just said, “Mommy, you should compete with Auntie.” And she was like, okay, I guess we’ll do it.

Just for tracking purposes: the two of them together have won 14 Grand Slam titles as doubles partners. Six of these have come at Wimbledon. Between the two of them, they have 21 total titles on grass. Their first doubles win at Wimbledon was in 2000. Their last was in 2016. Venus turns 46 this week. Serena’s 44. At the combined age of 90.

What I love is these women stepping back into, or in Venus’ case who has never left, competing. We’d love to see that changing of the narrative around once you reach a certain age, you’re no longer able to compete at the highest level. They’re really turning that on its head.

Serena competed at the Queens Club in London in doubles. At London’s Queen’s Club, the sell-through on tickets jumped to 95% capacity, up from 88% capacity from last year. Multiple sellout days after her announcement, including the day she played her first-round doubles match. Social media engagement surged 300%.

Alex: 100 percent. WNBA announces an expanded 50-game season for 2027.

Caitlin: This is big. They play 44 regular season games now. So that’s six more games per team. We right now have 15 teams in the W. We’re going to have 16 next year. So you’re talking about adding 96 games to the schedule, which is huge. That’s more broadcast, more advertising, more opportunity to see these players, more games for fans to go to. Certainly a signal that the WNBA is feeling good about their growth. And something that Kathy Engelbert has talked about recently is, do we go international? Do we go play some games overseas, like the NFL does?

Alex: Are they thinking Mexico? Are they thinking overseas, overseas?

Caitlin: I think they’re thinking like, you go play a few games with the Liberty or the Sparks, these really well-known teams, overseas for a couple games.

Alex: Caitlin Clark debuts her new signature shoe with Nike, set to release in October.

Caitlin: So Clark joins, I think she signed a six or eight year, 20-plus million dollar deal with Nike. This is her first shoe. It was called the Caitlin One. She joined Sabrina Ionescu and A’ja Wilson with signature shoes under the Nike brand. And then you’ve got Angel Reese with Reebok, who also debuted a new colorway at the same game that Caitlin debuted her shoes. And then I didn’t know this, but Brianna Stewart has a signature shoe with Puma.

Alex: Oh, okay. I didn’t know that either.

Caitlin: The Studio One through Five, apparently. She’s had the longest-running signature shoe deal in the W.

Alex: In WNBA action, Olivia Miles just keeps breaking records. Marina Mabrey ties the record for most three-pointers made in a single game. And Indiana just set the kind of record you don’t want to, becoming the first team to lose three times in 15 games when scoring 100 or more points.

Caitlin: Yeah, not a club you want to be a part of. Back-to-back losses against the Dream over the weekend, one of those being one where they scored over 100 and didn’t win. In one of those games though, I do want to call out another record: Angel Reese of the Atlanta Dream became the fastest player in WNBA history to a thousand career points and a thousand career rebounds. So flowers for Angel.

Alex: Unrivaled starts a campaign announcing players who have signed on for next season, using a new “names on the map” treasure hunt theme.

Caitlin: This to me is really interesting when you think about the marketing tactic. We’re many months away from Unrivaled, but we’re right in the thick of WNBA attention. And so Unrivaled is making this play of, hey, here are players you’re seeing around the W right now. They are going to be playing in our league come January. Two of those players announced so far: Gabby Williams from the Golden State Valkyries, and Flau’jae Johnson, the rook from the Seattle Storm. I love the approach and taking advantage of the momentum around women’s basketball right now.

Alex: No shortage of drama during the NWSL break for the World Cup, with international signings, coaching changes, and interleague transfers making headlines.

Caitlin: The big ones: Sam Kerr, Australian national team and former Chelsea superstar, signs with Gotham FC. This is a big deal. Lily Real [NAME CHECK], 2025 NWSL Rookie of the Year and current US Women’s National Team Defender, signs with Boston Legacy through 2029, moving from Gotham. And then Angel City, Alex is going to talk about that a lot. And then there are rumors about Alexia Putellas, potentially coming to the NWSL, which threw us for a loop because we thought she had agreed to terms elsewhere.

Alex: Marketing efforts by the NWSL and US Soccer during the Men’s World Cup are everywhere: from sidewalk paint stencils for the new NWSL Atlanta team, to US national team stars like Lindsay Horan and Trinity Rodman delivering game balls, to Emma Hayes doing poignant, accessible, smart breakdowns of tactics during mandatory hydration breaks.

Caitlin: Basically everywhere you look, you are seeing things promoting either the US Soccer women’s national team or the NWSL. I was listening to a podcast today where they were talking to one of the marketing heads in the NWSL about this concept of, let’s ride this wave and expose fans to players and coaches and teams and cities where there are NWSL teams.

Alex: FIFA launches a free, evidence-backed course for female health and performance, including modules on fertility, pregnancy, and postpartum.

Caitlin: We need more of this. I love it.

Alex: PWHL draft draws a crowd, reactions from fans.

Caitlin: It looked like a beautiful production. They did a great job with it. Packed house where they hosted. Really cool to see.

Alex: Kilmer Sports Ventures and Illich Companies have joined the PWHL as strategic partners, becoming the first outside investors since the league started in 2023.

Caitlin: This is a huge signal for the long-term plans of the PWHL. Kilmer Sports Ventures is set to invest a hundred million dollars in the league. The Illich Companies’ investment was not disclosed. Kilmer Sports Ventures in particular brings a Canadian investment group, which I think is really important as we have a league that crosses borders. And then Illich Companies also owns the Detroit Red Wings, the NHL team in Detroit. And they happen to own Little Caesars Arena, where the PWHL Detroit team will play alongside the Red Wings.

Alex: Ottawa Charged to make Canadian Tire Centre permanent home. They will share with the Ottawa Senators.

Caitlin: Yeah, we’d love to see it. They were able to pretty much sell that place out all through the playoffs when they got to play there. There’s an avid fan base there that wants to go to more games. It’s a good move.

Alex: In LPGA action, Miyu Yamashita wins the Meijer Classic in Belmont, Michigan.

Caitlin: Yeah, this was apparently a down-to-the-wire finish this past weekend.

Alex: In the Women’s National Football Conference, the Texas Elite Spartans cap off an undefeated season to win the title again and cement their position as the best team in women’s professional football. Is that like three or four now?

Caitlin: I was trying to think back to when we covered them. And I was like, haven’t they won all of the championships?

Alex: It might have been all. I thought it was at least the last three or something like that.

Caitlin: They are quite good. San Diego Rebellion may have challenged them, but we’ll see.

NWSL: second half preview and key teams

Alex: All right, let’s dig into this. We are talking about some soccer.

Caitlin: So a couple of weeks ago, we left off the NWSL to go on this break. And we had had a list of who do we think the break hurts and who do we think it helps. Just to refresh our memories, from episode 22, we said this break was going to help Denver Summit, Gotham FC, and potentially our sliding teams like Chicago, Racing Louisville, Seattle Rain, and Bay FC. Mostly because you get to stop the bleeding for a little bit, get a little more time to sit back, game plan and make changes. Who might it hurt? We said Utah, right? Utah was on this unreal 10 or 11 game win streak going into the break. Houston had been on a little bit of a surge. Same thing with North Carolina.

We are going to talk about some teams that have had certain events happen that we think are going to have huge impacts on the second half of the season.

Alex: We’re going to talk about Angel City. A lot has happened at Angel City.

Caitlin: A lot happened in a very short amount of time.

Alex: So they did fire their head coach, Alexander Smerud. One of the assistant coaches is now the interim coach. They’ll be dealing not only with everything else that’s happening, but a new coach on top of it as well. They also traded Kennedy Fuller to Bay FC for 500K in transfer funds and 20K in allocation money. They then signed US national team forward Ally Sentnor from the Kansas City Current for $850,000. She has 22 caps and seven international goals for the national team. So yeah, they’re currently sitting in 12th place. It’s looking like they’re still trying to make something of this season. I don’t know how hard it is to come in with a new coach halfway through the season and be like, we got to figure this out.

Caitlin: I think it’s probably beneficial that he was already on the staff. He’s not going to have to come in and know the players, know the facilities, know the leadership. What’s tricky is what do you bring differently to the table that the head coach you were reporting to right before didn’t. It’s interesting because Angel City FC started the season so hot. They were leading the league in goals. They were really looking good. And then they had some unfortunate injuries. I think their last kind of good result was a 0-0 draw against Portland right before the break, which is big, but unable to win games. And so I think the ownership leadership there must have been saying, something’s got to give. We’ve got the pieces; you’re the problem.

Alex: Yeah. I mean, it kind of feels like even down in that 12th spot, they’re trying to make something happen with the season.

Caitlin: Yeah. And remember, you’ve got to get to eighth position to be in playoffs. Ally Sentnor, she has a nose for goal. Seven goals in 22 appearances for the national team is a goal every three games. She brings energy. And in Kansas City, she probably wasn’t starting all the time because you’ve got Tamra Schwenga, Michelle Cooper, a lot of players who probably got the nod in front of her. This might put her in position to be a starter, which will help her development.

Alex: Give her something to prove out there too.

Caitlin: Exactly.

Alex: All right, moving on to San Diego. Eugenia [NAME CHECK] tore her ACL and meniscus in that friendly versus the United States, stretchered off after awkwardly challenging Emily Sonnett. She had five goals and four assists going through the season so far.

Caitlin: Yeah, this one’s just gut-wrenching. I really think she was the one, even when she wasn’t necessarily the assist, she was creating opportunities for them. She was always around the ball. Now, the good thing for San Diego is they do have a lot of weapons: Kenza Dali, Godfrey the rookie who’s playing really well, Lyudmyla [NAME CHECK], Melanie [NAME CHECK] who usually has been coming off the bench. So it will be interesting to see how big of an impact she was having on specifically the offense for that team.

Alex: They also signed Sandra Panos, Spanish international keeper, three-time UEFA Champions League winner with Barca. Were they kind of getting scored on quite a bit there towards the end?

Caitlin: I think there were some questions about the quality and consistency they were getting from that keeper spot.

Alex: All right, we’ll have to see if they can hold on. They are first in the table at the break. Bay FC acquired Kennedy Fuller from Angel City. The last game before the break was a 3-1 loss to Orlando. They sit at 13 in the standings. Do you think the reset gives them an opportunity to dig out of this hole?

Caitlin: Maybe. I’ve watched maybe two of their games so far and they seem very flat. There’s just not a lot of dynamism in their tactical approach. They have very much struggled to score goals. If Fuller can bring some spark to the midfield, that’ll be helpful. They certainly are in that zone where if they don’t step on the gas coming out of the break, I don’t think they have a shot at playoffs. And that would be unfortunate, especially in the women’s sports capital of the world, which is basically the Bay Area.

Caitlin: All right, I’m going to talk about a few teams. Gotham FC: I think they have potential to just come roaring out of this break. This was before they signed Sam Kerr, and now they have signed Sam Kerr. One of the things I had grumbled about when it came to Gotham was inconsistently finding the back of the net. You throw Sam Kerr up top, you’re finding the back of the net. You now have her, you have the Spanish international star, Jayden Shoop [NAME CHECK], Rose Lavelle, like you have an offensive engine and people who can get Kerr the ball. I can’t really imagine working an Alexia Putellas into that group at this point. I actually think she’s probably a better fit somewhere like Boston, where there aren’t really superstar players up top.

They also have the advantage of being featured in some really big matches coming off the break. They play Kansas City Current in the Challenge Cup this coming Friday. And then on July 15th they play in what they’re calling the Queen’s Classic, which is Gotham vs. Washington Spirit at Citi Field in Queens, New York, where the Mets play. A rematch of last year’s final. There’s a big push there, and New York right now is just rushed with energy after the Knicks’ championship and all the World Cup hosting they’re doing.

Alex: Well, they did the five-dollar ticket thing for that Queens Classic game.

Caitlin: They’re blocking some sets of tickets for the Queen’s Classic game. You have this perfect storm of ingredients for a lot of eyes on you. I will also be watching Boston, now that they got Lily Real, and might get Alexia Putellas.

My other team to watch is the Denver Summit. They get Lindsay Horan coming off the break, coming off her international duty with the US Women’s National Team and finishing her career at Lyon. And because their home field is being built right now, they’ve played an outsized number of away games in the first part of the season. They have a lot of home games coming up, which is nice. When you’re the home team in Denver, you get the altitude on your side. Teams coming in who haven’t acclimated don’t feel great, and most teams can’t get there for a week ahead of time because of the match schedule.

My honorable mentions: Utah. Every week we’re going to be saying, well, they win as long as that streak continues. And then Houston. Last season, Houston came back off a similar break, way out of the playoff picture, and went on a tear that got them almost all the way back to qualify for playoffs. They had been on that little upswing before the break, and they’re a young team.

Caitlin: Wrapping this section up: I want to remind our audience of the criticality of this moment for women’s professional soccer in America. You have this really critical five-year timeline hopefully leading up to the Women’s World Cup being hosted here with Mexico. You have the Men’s World Cup here for the first time in like 32 years, which is attracting a ton of eyeballs and attention.

I heard a statistic that back when we hosted the Men’s World Cup in 1994, soccer was the 67th most-watched sport in the United States, right behind tractor pulling.

Alex: I was going to say, what are the 66 other sports?

Caitlin: The point is, soccer is not 67th on that list anymore. We now have people who are just more interested in the sport in general. And what sports do we have with heavy emphasis on community and engagement? Women’s sports. The NWSL is making a bet right now to say, we do that over here.

Alex: I think in five years, when you look back at where was the point where women’s soccer really took off even more, it’s not going to be from next year’s Women’s World Cup. It’s going to be from this year, with what they’re laying the groundwork for right now.

Caitlin: Yep. And you think about trying to draw attention to the international stars who are part of the NWSL, who will play in next year’s Women’s World Cup, who will be back for their national teams in LA in 2028 for the Olympics, and all of that rolling towards 2031 in that World Cup with potential to host. I love the bets that they’re making. I love that they’re leaning in instead of leaning out.

PWHL expansion draft recap

Alex: All right, we’re going to talk PWHL draft. Let’s do a quick rundown of our picks. Vancouver: we had Caroline Harvey, which we got correct. Seattle taking Abby Murphy, they took Abby Murphy. Then the dominoes started to fall. We had Vegas taking Abby Murphy. They took Tessa Janecke [NAME CHECK]. We had San Jose taking Tessa Janecke. In that top four, it was all the same people, just taken in a different order than what we thought.

Then Vegas, we had them taking Kristin Sims [NAME CHECK]. They took Lacey Eden. Hamilton: Nelly Leighton. They took Nelly Leighton. Then New York, we had Lacey Eden. They took Emma Peschel. Toronto: Izzy Wunder [NAME CHECK]. They took Kristin Sims. We had Minnesota taking Eliza [NAME CHECK]. They took Sarah Swiderski. Boston, we had Emma Peschel. They took Grace Dwyer. Ottawa: we had Sydney Morrow. They took Viviane [NAME CHECK]. And then we had Montreal taking Sarah Swiderski and they took Petra Nieminen [NAME CHECK]. We actually had nine of the 12.

Caitlin: Oh, that’s pretty good.

Alex: Yeah. I thought it was a good effort for a casual college hockey fan. Exactly. Also casual, not knowing all the PWHL teams well.

Alex: All right. So the next thing we’re going to do is talk about the expansion approach for a couple of teams. I’ll talk about Detroit. They seem to have gone all in on the early phases: veteran heavy, mostly offensive core. They started with Daryl Watts, who got the first four-year deal in PWHL history. Jesse Compher, another forward. Britta Curl, another forward. Cayla Barnes, defense. And Hannah Bilka, forward. And just a bunch of national team stars, Olympic medal-winning players.

Then they pulled in Sydney Barr, defense. Taylor Girard [NAME CHECK], forward. Shan Darkangelo [NAME CHECK], forward. And Nina Jobse-Smith [NAME CHECK], defense, to round out right before the draft. And then right before the draft was their big move: Hillary Knight via sign-and-trade with Vegas. They gave their fifth overall pick to Vegas in return for Hillary Knight. And then they also did more trading at the draft. First pick at 15: they took Andrea Bornley [NAME CHECK] from Frölunda HC in the Swedish league, as their goaltender.

Caitlin: I’ll take a different tack. Hamilton landed in a similar boat to Detroit in that they signed a lot of offensive talent. They went in hard immediately. Whereas San Jose and Las Vegas, I really don’t know.

Alex: And just a quick note on Detroit and Hamilton: this is a lot of big names. We’re going to have to see how that ends up with their actual signings and cap space. I noticed a lot of these players haven’t been signed to contracts yet from the draft, so I don’t know if they’re still trying to figure out contract stuff or if that comes later.

Caitlin: So I’m going to talk about an expansion team from last year: the Seattle Torrent. Let’s be very clear: this was an incredibly disruptive thing to go through for all teams in the league. There is no team that was left unscathed by this process. But I think that Torrent fans would argue they were the most impacted by the process. Especially as a team that had just been around for one year. I think Vancouver was like the least touched team from the expansion picks. Very different stories between the two expansion teams from last year.

Alex: There were a lot of fans on social media saying that the one-year-old expansion team should have had a little bit more protection. Just breaking that team up so quickly.

Caitlin: Yeah, and I kind of get it. I think they should have gone higher in the draft picks for New York and Toronto before the expansion teams. On the flip side of Alex’s pickups for Detroit, Seattle lost Cayla Barnes, Hannah Bilka, Hillary Knight, Corinne Schrader, Megan Carter, and Mariah Keppel. Now, what they kept was Hannah Murphy, who was on the All-Rookie team last year as a goaltender. Alex Carpenter and Anna Wilgren were also protected in that first phase for Seattle. So you had a goaltender, a forward, and a defender.

They also kept and protected Julia Gosling, Danielle Sarladie [NAME CHECK], Michaela Grant-Mentis, and others. If I recall from watching their games, that’s a pretty good core at the end of the day. But you did lose, outside of Carpenter, your biggest, most well-known names.

They drafted with the second pick: Abby Murphy, the standout forward from the University of Minnesota. She also happens to be a little bit controversial.

Where I think this was an especially hard pill to swallow for Torrent fans was: you went from Hillary Knight, using her as this symbol of leadership, inclusivity, excellence in her craft, to what fans see in Abby Murphy: beliefs or values that are exclusionary, that are troubling to that fanbase. Similar to Britta Curl.

Alex: Yes.

Caitlin: Somebody we really struggled with as Frost fans, because she’s on our team and she is able to produce on the ice, which is good for our team, but we don’t really care for her views and values in the way that she kind of shares those with the world. I get why fans feel this way. We have talked so much here about the importance in women’s sports of creating a space that differs from men’s sports, where things like community and values are pretty key to those fanbases, to the players, et cetera. And so I think they feel a little betrayed.

Alex: Yeah. I mean, I think it’s hard for this community that feels so inclusive, so welcoming, this new place for new sports fans to gather. But at the end of the day, the team’s main goal is to win games and win a championship. That’s how they make money. And unfortunately, sometimes that means bringing in somebody who is not aligned with the overwhelming community of the sport. It’s going to be a tough pill for a lot of these new sports fans to swallow. I am all for people trying to make change and make it so that we don’t have to swallow those pills. But it’s going to be a very difficult change, if it ever happens.

Caitlin: Yeah. I also do think you have to give the player the chance that maybe she gets into an environment where she learns something new and changes her behaviors and actions. But that aside: the goal is to win games. This is a professional sports league. These players want to win games. Right now, we have very little idea about what the product on the ice is going to look like.

I’ll finish with this: Seattle had the highest average attendance of all teams last season. And I’ve already seen on social media people saying they’re going to withdraw their support as a result of this. The idea of the fluid fan in women’s sports, where fans aren’t necessarily loyal to a team, but they’re loyal to an ideal or a player: are we going to see Torrent fans pop up as Vancouver fans or San Jose fans? It seems like an opportunity to test the theory that women’s sports fans aren’t just about the team in their hometown.

Alex: If there’s a group large enough to actually break away and stop supporting a team, I wonder if there’s a tipping point for a specific league where they say, we kind of have to think about this as we’re building our teams. At some point it may become a business decision to not employ certain players if the fans actually prove that it’s a big enough deal to them.

Caitlin: Fans, you definitely have a voice. But there are 22 other players on the team who are doing this for their living. We also need to be thoughtful: yes, our dollars go to the league and we might not agree with the league, but the league is paying these players’ salaries. If we want to support the larger group, I do think we need to stay invested in the overall goal, which is lifting all the boats of these women’s sports leagues.

Alex: It is definitely a hard, it’s a tough razor’s edge. Both sides.

Caitlin: This is where it is hard being in the women’s sports ecosphere. It is different, because we don’t want to make exceptions for bad behavior. We’ve found a new environment where we don’t necessarily have to do that because it’s not the precedent. And so it’s sort of: how can we productively do that while not harming the opportunities for a bunch of other amazing women?

What’s next for the PWHL

Caitlin: We now have had the draft. We’re in the free agency signing period. How do you bring the eyes back to your league? They need to sell season tickets for these expansion teams, and probably existing teams too. You have four teams that need names. They’re PWHL Detroit and PWHL Las Vegas right now. I imagine there are going to be events staged throughout the rest of the summer or into the fall to announce the teams and mascots. How do you bring fans into that experience?

The other thing coming up, right before the season starts, is the IIHF World Championship. This runs from November 6th through the 16th. A lot of these women, much of the league, will be representing their national teams. For the Olympics, it was like over a third of the league going. How does the PWHL use that, similar to how they used Milano-Cortina, as a funnel for attention?

Alex: It’ll be interesting if they can actually market that to say, hey, our players are playing there. Here’s how you watch it. I catch replay clips here and there on the internet, but if they can really say, here’s where you can go watch all of this, that’ll be really interesting.

Caitlin: So we will be watching out for those things. The season will start right after that tournament. They’re actually delaying the start of the season because they didn’t want to play three games and then have to break.

WNBA heat check at 15 games

Alex: All right, let’s dig into the WNBA. We are at the 15-game mark and we have a heat check here.

Caitlin: Heat check. We’re going to keep this pretty brief today. I tiered out the teams into three groups. We’ll go through that and then we’re both going to share what we’re watching for in the next 15 or so games. It’s about 12 games until the All-Star game. So that might be like my marker a little bit.

Okay, so far my three tiers are: top contenders, challengers, and what I’m calling disruptors. I believe that on any given night most teams can beat any other team. Obviously you’re not going to see consistent strings of wins with the disruptors, but these disruptors could play a really critical role in what happens to the contenders.

Top contenders: Minnesota Lynx, Las Vegas Aces, New York Liberty, Atlanta Dream, and the Golden State Valkyries. Dallas Wings fans are going to get mad at me. I do think they are a very good team. I think they have the most inconsistent defense of the top six teams, and defense wins championships. Until they figure that out… The Valkyries are in there because they have consistently good defense and they shoot the three ball like nobody’s business. If they shoot the three ball well and play the defense that they can play, they will win most games.

Alex: Yes, they will.

Caitlin: Challengers: Dallas Wings at the top of my challengers list. Don’t get it twisted. Indiana Fever, Washington Mystics, Toronto Tempo, and the Portland Fire. Now this group kind of splits itself in two, because the Wings and the Fever are clear contenders who will probably be in the playoffs. The next three is more like, I’m not really sure what you’re going to get on any given night, but they definitely can challenge. We just saw the Mystics beat the Lynx. The Tempo right now have a challenge: both Brittney Sykes and Kiki Rice, their rookie point guard, are out on injury. That’s about 33 points per game for the team.

And then my disruptors are the Sparks, although the Sparks might be right on that edge of Challenger. The Storm, the Sun, the Mercury, and the Sky.

Alex: Yeah, the vowel you can say is “ah.”

Caitlin: The poor Sky.

Alex: I just want to say, I think the Sparks could rise to the top of the Challengers by the end of the season.

Caitlin: Potentially.

Alex: As long as Kelsey Plum stays healthy and they have some other things working. Ariel Atkins, Erica Wheeler, Nneka Ogwumike, Cameron Brink. Can we consistently produce?

Caitlin: All right, what are we watching for through the next 15 games? You want to go first?

Alex: Yeah. The Wings are way better than last year. I think we are seeing a transformation with the Dallas Wings. I want to remind everyone: last year they were 10 and 34. We said this year they will definitely not be 10 and 34. Look at them. They’re currently 10 and 6. So unless they want to lose 28 games straight, they are going to be better than last year.

Caitlin: They play the Seattle Storm tonight.

Alex: Yeah. We’ll see what happens. And then I think the other storyline outside of the Azziahé Fudd-Paige Bueckers reunion is Jess Shepard. She’s averaging five more points, four more rebounds, and three more assists than she did with the Lynx last year. And she has two triple-doubles.

Caitlin: She’s averaging basically a double-double right now. They have all the talent they need. They have to figure out how to play defense, specifically in the paint. And Alana Smith from the Lynx, they signed her to a really big contract and she has not found her groove.

Alex: She hurt her face. She has the mask.

Caitlin: If you tighten that up a little bit, you may be moving into that top tier. And the Aces have yet to beat the Wings.

Alex: Yeah, what is it? The Aces can’t beat the Wings. The Wings can’t beat the Lynx. The Lynx can’t beat the Aces. The Valkyrie can’t beat the Lynx. It’s just like a big circle thing they’ve got going.

Caitlin: Okay, what am I watching for? I took less of a team route and went more on some concepts. My view: the upsets are coming, or in our case they’ve begun. We talked about the Sparks over the Liberty. We talked about the Mystics over the Lynx. We had the Chicago Sky get really close to beating both the Liberty and the Wings in back-to-back games.

I think you’re going to see coaches getting smarter, players getting smarter, game planning differently around teams they’ve seen. Olivia Miles is not a surprise to anybody anymore. Golden State had a game plan for her. Natalie Nakase last week was like, you lit us up last time, I am going to game plan the hell out of how to defend you. And it worked.

These challenger-type teams are going to have the book on the contenders. The disruptors are going to have the book on the challengers. I think we’re going to go more to it being very normal to win three or four and then lose. The key is: how do you make sure one loss doesn’t turn into two?

Defense is critical right now. The teams that are winning games are winning on their defense, not their offense. You have to buckle that down.

And the last thing: officiating. Have we settled into this yet or is it still a question mark?

Alex: I think there’s like one or two games a week where the officiating is a non-story. And then the rest of them are major questions.

Caitlin: Yeah, we just want consistency. You can get hacked down at one side of the court and then at the other side it’s like a touch foul. I would also like to see better consistency around technical foul calls. Something to keep in mind: those tech fouls rack up. You have to pay more money, and you eventually get suspended.

Caitlin: All right, let’s round this out. Let’s talk a little bit about All-Star.

Alex: Oh yeah. Already 12 games away.

Caitlin: That’s going to be on July 25th in Chicago at United Center. Fans have started voting, and as of the middle of last week, the top 10 had: A’ja Wilson at number one with just over 300,000 votes, Paige Bueckers not far off about 10,000 votes behind, then Aaliyah Boston, Brianna Stewart, Caitlin Clark, Jess Shepard, Angel Reese, Gabby Williams, Olivia Miles, and Kelsey Mitchell.

Alex: Not a lot of surprises on any of those.

Caitlin: No. This is a combo of fan votes and media votes. What I think is cool about the WNBA All-Star game is the top two vote-getters get named captains of the teams. And then they pick like kickball teams on a playground. There’s no rhyme or reason to how those teams get constructed. It’s a big party weekend for just having fun. They get about a six-day break from regular season play.

Alex: I was just looking at it. Azziahé Fudd is just out of that top 10, too.

Caitlin: Just out of that top 10. Natasha Howard. Number 12.

Alex: 13-year vet getting her All-Star call-up.

Caitlin: Looking forward to it.

What to watch this week

Alex: Okay. All right, let’s get into it. “What to Watch.” We’re going to go right back into WNBA. We picked out one game per day as per usual. Friday: Atlanta Dream versus Golden State, 9 p.m. on ION. That’s going to be good. And I kind of want Golden State to win that one, just to create as much messiness all over the standings.

Caitlin: Give us all the mess.

Alex: Saturday: Indiana Fever vs. Las Vegas Aces, 7 p.m. Sunday: Minnesota Lynx vs. Dallas Wings, 1 p.m. on CBS. And after we record but before next week’s episode will be the Commissioner’s Cup, the Aces vs. Liberty at 7 p.m. on Prime.

Then for NWSL: the Challenge Cup, Gotham vs. Kansas City Current, Friday, 7 p.m. on Prime.

We also have the LPGA: the KPMG Women’s PGA Championship, Thursday through Sunday on NBC, Golf Channel, and Peacock. It is a stone’s throw in our backyard, right here.

Caitlin: We are not exaggerating. It’s being played at Hazel Dell National Golf Course, which is pretty close to us.

Alex: And we unfortunately cannot go. And then obviously we talked about Wimbledon. Qualifiers have started this week. It starts officially on Monday.

Momentum and setbacks

Alex: All right, momentum and setbacks. What do you got?

Caitlin: Do we need to start with setbacks?

Alex: Yeah, let’s start with setbacks.

Caitlin: Okay. Staying on the side of the W: Chicago Sky, two really close losses. One first to the Liberty at home, and then to the Wings in Dallas. Some would say the Dallas loss was partially due to the referees. And I think anybody who’s played a sport knows how emotionally taxing games like that are. To do that back-to-back is really hard. Chicago, ever since they beat the Lynx at the game I was at early in the season, I was like, they have the pieces. They just can’t figure out how to put them together yet. And we were watching them tonight, they just got absolutely destroyed by the Connecticut Sun. You’re just like, wow. You are on the emotional hangover of trying to rise and fight against two Titans, and you come in and get blown out.

Alex: And it’s really hard because from Unrivaled we really got to love Tasha Cloud and she is such an emotional leader. She’s very invested in playing good ball.

Caitlin: Yeah. And then my other one is the Toronto Tempo. They’re in my challenger’s bucket, but these injuries to Brittney Sykes and Kiki Rice are really detrimental to them. They were losing to the Dream by almost 20 points when we came in here to record. They’ve been inconsistent defensively. I see them actually falling into that disruptors bucket.

Alex: For sure. My setback: I don’t know if it’s a setback, it’s more like, will the chaos at Angel City pay off? Will it reinvigorate that team and see them find their way into the playoffs?

Caitlin: For me, momentum: soccer. You’ve got the World Cup, we’ve talked about the Challenge Cup on Friday, we’ve got the Queen’s Classic, all these international signings. Alex and I were talking earlier before taping: about six months ago when we started this, there was this panic in the NWSL. And now you’ve seen this draw of international talent. We haven’t even seen, something for San Diego that’s really poignant: Katarina Macario is there. Will she be healthy after this break and ready to play? And can she help shore up the gap that the injury leaves?

Caitlin: I do think we will look back on this moment, not next year’s Women’s World Cup for the women, but this moment right now, as this catapult for explosive growth again for the NWSL.

Alex: And if it pans out, that’s like an automatic bid for the commissioner to go into the hall of fame for whatever hall of fame they’re going to have.

Caitlin: 100 percent. So that’s my momentum.

Alex: Mine: the WNBA in general. I think looking back on our 25 episodes, we talked a lot in the beginning about how we thought they were not doing well in the CBA negotiations. But right now they’re just really hitting their stride. Exciting games almost every night. The three-pointer to end the 30-year anniversary game on ESPN Sunday Night. Olivia Miles as a rookie is just out of her mind. So I think overall, we’re just in a good spot with the WNBA.

Caitlin: Yeah. I’ve loved bringing all the players who were there at the start back. Cheryl Miller, Cynthia Cooper. We saw Kelsey Plum on the broadcast last week. Teresa Weatherspoon was wearing the original WNBA starter jacket during the halftime show. I agree with you. They are playing this really, really nicely.

Special announcement

Caitlin: Special announcement.

Alex: Oh yeah, I almost forgot.

Caitlin: So next week we are actually out on vacation. And so we will be pre-recording our part two of our Pioneers or Trailblazers episode, that will air at our normal cadence, but we will not have the weekly update. So you’re going to have to go two weeks without your day-to-day sports news.

Alex: And then we come back, we’ll do four hours catching up on everything we missed.

Caitlin: We will try not to do that. But just as you are getting ready to listen, potentially next week as we head into the holiday weekend, just know it will be a slightly different program.

Alex: RTG pod. RTG underscore pod on Instagram, Threads, YouTube, rtgpod.com, raisingthegamepodcast.gmail.com, Raising the Game on Substack. I think I got them all.

Caitlin: Save, subscribe, comment, share, do all the things. It helps us. And mostly it’s just fun. We really are tickled every time we’re like, someone’s listening to us.

Alex: Yeah. Thank you.

Caitlin: We appreciate you. Till next time.

Alex: Bye.

Caitlin: Bye.